BestMomEver
2500 Club Member
I’ll also add than my tank is 24x24x24. The xr15 works well. If my tank was one inch larger in any direction, I would have gotten the xr30.
Is the kessil or the Radion an over kill for me?
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Jacked Reefer
Valuable Member
That’s why I prefer modding (lights and cars)
That is also why There is no best light sure you can’t get the growth and colors of a radion with a kessil. But with radions you can’t get the kessil shimmer and blending. And you can’t control either from your phone (without paying extra) like ai. You have to know what you are going to do. Drag strip? Mountain curves? Sps growout? mixed display? It’s all relative.
So why does everyone say the radion has so much more power than the kessil? And costs so much more (the kessil that is)?
Power - equal (kessil probably has more after the diffuser is added to the mix)
Kessil 360x - 90w peak
Radion xr15 - 95w peak (you have to use a diffuser though to get good blending and I hear they cut 25% or so of the light so it’s actually less)
Base unit Cost - equal for base units
Kessil 360x - $450
Radion xr15 - $400 plus $45 for the diffuser
Mounting
Kessil a mount - $65
Radion RMS - $104
Extras
Kessil spectral controller - $100
Radion reeflink - $100
So for the same power, or more considering the loss from the diffuser the kessil will cost you $66 more than the radion for the first light (if you don’t get the reeflink) and it gets less and less as you add more lights.
Since a lot of people are going to multiple xr15’s vs a single xr30 due to shading issues I think this is the comparison you should go with.
To me I feel kessils and radions are pretty much the mustang vs the Camaro ( to stick with the car analogy) they are the same type of light at the same power and price point.
Power - equal (kessil probably has more after the diffuser is added to the mix)
Kessil 360x - 90w peak
Radion xr15 - 95w peak (you have to use a diffuser though to get good blending and I hear they cut 25% or so of the light so it’s actually less)
Base unit Cost - equal for base units
Kessil 360x - $450
Radion xr15 - $400 plus $45 for the diffuser
Mounting
Kessil a mount - $65
Radion RMS - $104
Extras
Kessil spectral controller - $100
Radion reeflink - $100
So for the same power, or more considering the loss from the diffuser the kessil will cost you $66 more than the radion for the first light (if you don’t get the reeflink) and it gets less and less as you add more lights.
Since a lot of people are going to multiple xr15’s vs a single xr30 due to shading issues I think this is the comparison you should go with.
To me I feel kessils and radions are pretty much the mustang vs the Camaro ( to stick with the car analogy) they are the same type of light at the same power and price point.
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What about demolition derby?!! Every time I read a new response, I think, "Hmm that's a good point, I'll go with that." Then the next post someone else makes another good point. This is very difficult.That’s why I prefer modding (lights and cars)
That is also why There is no best light sure you can’t get the growth and colors of a radion with a kessil. But with radions you can’t get the kessil shimmer and blending. And you can’t control either from your phone (without paying extra) like ai. You have to know what you are going to do. Drag strip? Mountain curves? Sps growout? mixed display? It’s all relative.
minus9
5000 Club Member
To the OP, I would suggest watching the BRS vids on lighting (especially the BRS Investigates series), they cover a lot of lights and give you the real data on each light. I think you'll have great results with all the lights mentioned here, it all boils down to what you want in a light? They'll all grow coral just fine, but for me it's not what they look like above the tank, but what it looks like inside the tank. I'm sold on shimmer (takes me back to my metal halide days), but knowing that a single point light source has it's limits, (shading) and you'll need more units to minimize it if you're going full on sps, but in your case, one or two lights will get you started. Take your time and do some homework (watch BRS).
Good luck and happy reefing!
Good luck and happy reefing!
pickupman66
5000 Club Member
Yes Indeed. there are tank mount arms for them. just like the prime and the 52HD.
I have the 360x over my 25g lagoon which is just a shorter version of your tank. Here is a pic of how it looks if you are interested in form factor
As for light it has 100+ par at the edges and 300+ in the center at 10”. Thats running at 60% and 6” over the tank so you will be able to grow anything with it. Having said that the radion would perform the same but I liked the look of the kessil (round vs square) over the tank more.
In this pic the light is actually 7.5” off the water
As for light it has 100+ par at the edges and 300+ in the center at 10”. Thats running at 60% and 6” over the tank so you will be able to grow anything with it. Having said that the radion would perform the same but I liked the look of the kessil (round vs square) over the tank more.
In this pic the light is actually 7.5” off the water
pickupman66
5000 Club Member
you left out the AI products in this regard. I added them in as they do belong in this conversation as the OP was also considering them.
OP, you didnt mention what features you would like in the light. While lights that you looked at are great, there are other options out there that are pretty much as good, but cost less. Do you need WiFi, 6 channels of light control, Apex integration, dawn/dusk/moon/lightning and so on?
None of these features will grow corals any better, but surely do add $$$. For some none of these features are needed, so they go for cheaper black box units (Mars Aqua, Vipar Spectra, SB Reef Lights as examples) some like these, but not all, so they go for more expensive units like Reef Breeders Photon V2+ (excellent unit, costs less than AI, Kessil and all other high end units, with majority of same features) And some, they have to have best of the best and go for top of the line units.
None of these features will grow corals any better, but surely do add $$$. For some none of these features are needed, so they go for cheaper black box units (Mars Aqua, Vipar Spectra, SB Reef Lights as examples) some like these, but not all, so they go for more expensive units like Reef Breeders Photon V2+ (excellent unit, costs less than AI, Kessil and all other high end units, with majority of same features) And some, they have to have best of the best and go for top of the line units.
That's a lot of coverage! Nice fuge too!I have the 360x over my 25g lagoon which is just a shorter version of your tank. Here is a pic of how it looks if you are interested in form factor
As for light it has 100+ par at the edges and 300+ in the center at 10”. Thats running at 60% and 6” over the tank so you will be able to grow anything with it. Having said that the radion would perform the same but I liked the look of the kessil (round vs square) over the tank more.
In this pic the light is actually 7.5” off the water
I considered adding it but the AI products aren’t an easy comparison since the hydra26 gets to 90 watts with a 2 puck design the prime which is a single puck is only 55w.
I will say the hydra 26 is the better apples to apples comparison to the 360x and xr15 but it’s a much larger form factor for the same features
The kessil 160 series and non pro radions probably compare closer to the prime
Thanks the fuge is doing amazing with a cheap current IC light and led panel from eBay.
These tanks are in my living area so form factor on the lighting is important and I’m willing to pay a premium for it. As others have stated lots of lights grow coral at some point you are just paying for features and how it looks
Looking at all the pros and cons, and what's right for me right now, I think I'm going to go with the Hydra 26 HD. I like the fact that it has an app, and watching the BRS video on AI's showed me that I could get a similar spectrum to the Radion with some adjustments through the app. It's also a little bit more budget friendly. I appreciate everyone's input!
I think you will be happy, I have seen a ton of great tanks with hydra26’s. For the types of coral you are going to keep it will do a good job
pickupman66
5000 Club Member
Agreed but I'm biased. You could not go wrong either way.
i believe thats partly because you are looking at from an aesthetic perspective vs raw performance. Aesthetic doesnt equate performance. those that care less about raw aesthetic "the shimmer in this case" will prefer the raw performance over the raw looks. i dont know about the new kessil x series, but remember kessil recommends for tanks deeper than 24" kessil recommended the N version of the lights over the W. so its back to trading par for spread even for kessil. Plus the radions gen 4 been out 2 years vs the x being new.. i understand marine/fish world is different than industrial lighting, but there has to have been some advances in leds and lenses in 2 years. that does say something about the radions gen 4 launch.
That is part of my job specifying light fixtures for Industrial and all kinds of buildings like retail, warehouses, factories, cold storage, residential etc.
There are advances in how we spread out light but the real problem is spreading out light takes way the advantages of leds. Leds are efficient because they put the light where it needs to be, they waste very little light. Like I said earlier this creates issues like shading. Leds are not great for lighting vertical surfaces like the front of racks in a storage facility.
When t-5 came along everyone thought they were not as bright as halides because they also wasted little light. That was because halides had a large bulb and reflector and wasted more light. They bounced light off the walls and in your eyes. Well they lit up the whole room so they had to be brighter right, NO they were wasting allot of light.
The other thing is we can not see par and our eyes see certain colors as brighter. Anyone that says they got a new light and it is brighter because they can see it... No, not in relation to what a coral receives.
When people measure par they measure a few points and just because a light has higher par than another light in those points does not mean that light puts out more light. It does in those points but not necessarily more light overall. This is what we are seeing with the new kessil. You need to measure farther out. Leds are so directional companies are trying to spread the light out farther to help out with shading issues. By doing this their will be less light directly under the fixture but more farther away. The problem is now the wattage needs to go up or more fixtures because there will be less par underneath the fixture. These lens or techniques cost more money to make or incorporate into the fixture. The more watts a fixture needs to be means less energy saving and the costs go up on the fixture again cutting into the savings.
The way people need to think about this is take a flashlight with a beam size that can be adjusted. Now adjust it for a smaller beam and the small spot is bright, now adjust out and the spot get bigger but dimmer. That bulb or led light is not putting out less light it is just spreading the light out more. I believe this is what we are seeing with the new Kessil
Fact is you can measure 10 spots under a fixture and because one fixture has higher numbers in those 10 spots does not necessarily mean it puts out more light over all, it just does in those spots. You would have to be capable of capturing all the light out of the fixture.
There is give and take with all lights. Halides, t-5 and leds have their own advantages and disadvantages. Halides are probably the best for the health of our corals because it spreads light out so much but it is the least efficient while leds waste the least light but are the worst for shading, T-5 is in the middle on efficiency and on spreading out the light. As they try to spread out the light more on led fixtures to help with shading issues the advantages and disadvantageous between leds and other fixtures will narrow. They will loose some efficiency for better lighting.
In a office we typically used fluorescent 2'x4' or 2'x2' troffers. With leds we still mainly use the same size fixture but the fixtures we us for leds use indirect lighting or they use edge lighting similar to led tv. this softens the light and spreads it out better.
That said the aquarium industry is behind and charges way more than they should.. Most our using standard off the shelf leds.
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i should have pointed out that I also work at a company that supplies industrial and electrical supplies to industrial, commercial and contractors. got a chance to do hubble lighting training and sylvania training. very good stuff and gave a much appreciated look at how our eyes work/perceive light. i agree with most of what was said. leds are still in early stage to maybe mid stage and i think alot of good things is still in store for them. remember flourescents have had 30+ years advantange. going have to expand on this after work.
I have 2 primes over a 29 gallon tall and do not like the way the tank looks. It reminds me of a TV on static. I am now looking to get new lights for a 40 breeder. I am leaning towards kessil(2 a160s after speaking with kessil) after seeing how bad the color blend is on the ai. If I had a bare bottom tank it may not be as bad without the sand bottom reflecting it, but the light reflecting on the ceiling is almost as bad. (Disco effect)
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