Is this hair algae or dinos?

[Ryan03]

Hey, I’ve been dealing with this for a while it covered my entire sand bed at one point now it’s all over my rocks. I manage to siphon out the sand bed and get it cleaned however I wanted to see what I should do with the rocks? Should I just brush it off or is there any other way I need to do it so it doesn’t get worse. Unfortunately my nitrates are at 0 and my phosphate was really high at one point but it’s at 0.22 now. Corals seem to be doing fine (they’re closed up in the picture because the lights were out and I turned it on just for pictures) except one of my zoanthids which has stayed closed up for a while even after a hydrogen peroxide dip. Any tips would be useful.

 

[Subsea]

If you can remove the rock, then peroxide and a toothbrush does quick work of algae. I use 12% concentrate

 

[Ryan03]

If you can remove the rock, then peroxide and a toothbrush does quick work of aptasia.

It’s not aptasia tho. Also unfortunately I can’t take out the rock as I’ve cemented them together.

 

[slingfox]

You need to provide more information to increase the chances of getting better advice.

• Size of tank
• How long has it been running
• What do you feed and how often
• What export methods do you use (filter sock, Reefmat, skimmer, refugium)
• Full tank picture (not just the affected area)
• What do you have for flow?
• Do you dose?

Very hard to tell from pictures but it looks like you have a newer system. It sounds like you have either diatoms for Dino’s but it is very hard to tell from the pictures.

 

[EnterName]

Before nuking your rocks or using "chemicals":
The tank looks young. How long do you have it running and did you start with 100% dry rock? I'm asking because during the first 6 - 12 months it's pretty normal to experience different algae and microbe outbreaks. Preventing them can sometimes do more harm than good. In that case I would simply wait.

A microscope could help with the identification (as long as it's not bacterial, then it will be too small). Maybe you know someone who has one at hand, or you are willing to spend a few bucks. I assume 400x magnification will suffice and you won't have to spend more than $50 for a decent used one.

Hypothetical section:
It's possibly the beginning of some green hair algae outbreak, which is now limited by nitrogen (nitrate is at 0ppm). If you were dealing with elevated phosphate levels, the rocks might have bound quite a lot of phosphate (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/results-from-my-home-study-phosphate-binding-kinetics.1138371/) and are now feeding algae. It takes a while until all that bound phosphorus is gone, so the issue might stay for a while.
Adding a nitrogen source will probably just make the growth worse (but will speed up the process if you manage to "harvest" the algae with toothbrush and net). You can take a look into ammonia dosing if you want to try this (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-for-low-nitrate-systems.987087/). You probably still won't get measurable nitrate levels for some time due to high consumption.

I also recommend an ICP-MS (not ICP-OES) test. I assume certain trace elements which are essential to photosynthesis and nitrogen uptake will be depleted and need to be added more frequently until the issue is resolved.

 

[Ryan03]

You need to provide more information to increase the chances of getting better advice.

• Size of tank
• How long has it been running
• What do you feed and how often
• What export methods do you use (filter sock, Reefmat, skimmer, refugium)
• Full tank picture (not just the affected area)
• What do you have for flow?
• Do you dose?

Very hard to tell from pictures but it looks like you have a newer system. It sounds like you have either diatoms for Dino’s but it is very hard to tell from the pictures.

- Tank is 90 gallon + 30 gallon sump
- It’s been running for almost 5 months now
- Filter socks
- Bubble magus curve elite 7 skimmer
- I have 2 hygger wavemakers (not the best my air nero 5 just broke recently) totalling to about 4000gph and they run on random flow one on each side.
- Return pump is a sdc 9.0 running close to 30%
- I don’t dose anything as of now but was considering dosing neo nitrate to get my nitrates up as they are at 0 (I double checked at my lfs as well)
- I can provide a full picture of the tank tomorrow but I just siphone everything from the sandbed so that looks pristine now it was the same stuff as on the rocks

 

[Ryan03]

Before nuking your rocks or using "chemicals":
The tank looks young. How long do you have it running and did you start with 100% dry rock? I'm asking because during the first 6 - 12 months it's pretty normal to experience different algae and microbe outbreaks. Preventing them can sometimes do more harm than good. In that case I would simply wait.

A microscope could help with the identification (as long as it's not bacterial, then it will be too small). Maybe you know someone who has one at hand, or you are willing to spend a few bucks. I assume 400x magnification will suffice and you won't have to spend more than $50 for a decent used one.

Hypothetical section:
It's possibly the beginning of some green hair algae outbreak, which is now limited by nitrogen (nitrate is at 0ppm). If you were dealing with elevated phosphate levels, the rocks might have bound quite a lot of phosphate (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/results-from-my-home-study-phosphate-binding-kinetics.1138371/) and are now feeding algae. It takes a while until all that bound phosphorus is gone, so the issue might stay for a while.
Adding a nitrogen source will probably just make the growth worse (but will speed up the process if you manage to "harvest" the algae with toothbrush and net). You can take a look into ammonia dosing if you want to try this (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-for-low-nitrate-systems.987087/). You probably still won't get measurable nitrate levels for some time due to high consumption.

I also recommend an ICP-MS (not ICP-OES) test. I assume certain trace elements which are essential to photosynthesis and nitrogen uptake will be depleted and need to be added more frequently until the issue is resolved.

Thank you, the rocks I got when I bought the tank (tank was running) but I just gave them a vinegar bath before using (at the time I thought that would reset then I learned about going the bleach route). The tank is about 5 months old. I’m too nervous to dose ammonia as I lost about half of my fish about 2 month ago due to ich I’m just nervous about losing more however I was considering dosing Brightwell Neo Nitro to bring the nitrate up. Also not sure if it’d be related, but I have a really large amount of bio media (bio rings, seachem matrix, and bricks) could that possibly be the reason to my nitrates bottoming out? It’s about 14lbs of seachem matrix, 2 bricks, and 3-4lbs of bio rings.

 

[slingfox]

- Tank is 90 gallon + 30 gallon sump
- It’s been running for almost 5 months now
- Filter socks
- Bubble magus curve elite 7 skimmer
- I have 2 hygger wavemakers (not the best my air nero 5 just broke recently) totalling to about 4000gph and they run on random flow one on each side.
- Return pump is a sdc 9.0 running close to 30%
- I don’t dose anything as of now but was considering dosing neo nitrate to get my nitrates up as they are at 0 (I double checked at my lfs as well)
- I can provide a full picture of the tank tomorrow but I just siphone everything from the sandbed so that looks pristine now it was the same stuff as on the rocks

This is very helpful. As expected your tank is very new so you can expect to see various uglies during the first year or two. I also dosed nitrate during the first six months since like you I had high phosphates (i had much higher than what you list) and zero nitrate. I eventually have to go through a long 6 week battle with Dinos. Whatever you have is not too bad. First thing you need to do is figure out what that growth is. It is very hard to tell by the pictures so you may want to try to zoom
In a bit if possible.

During my first year I found dosing nitrate to be very expensive since I would dose entire bottles and it would barely do anything. I therefore ended up making my own. Here are my notes:

• Nitrate Dosing: Sodium or calcium nitrate.
• Can use calculator for potassium here: http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm - 95 grams of sodium nitrate in 500ml rodi = Each 1ml raises nitrate by 0.25ppm for 125g system.
• To raise 125g system by 5ppm dose 20ml

The above are the notes for my 125g system. You can scale up or down as needed. After the first year I have not had to dose nitrates again.

 

[Kmst80]

Get a microscope as mentioned before.
I would have a look at chrysophytes, but that's just a step in the dark.

Nice little id guide
https://www.reef2reef.com/attachments/guide-to-dinoflagellates_r2r_begaud-pdf.2027770/
I doubt it be dinos or hairalgae.

 

[slingfox]

Thank you, the rocks I got when I bought the tank (tank was running) but I just gave them a vinegar bath before using (at the time I thought that would reset then I learned about going the bleach route). The tank is about 5 months old. I’m too nervous to dose ammonia as I lost about half of my fish about 2 month ago due to ich I’m just nervous about losing more however I was considering dosing Brightwell Neo Nitro to bring the nitrate up. Also not sure if it’d be related, but I have a really large amount of bio media (bio rings, seachem matrix, and bricks) could that possibly be the reason to my nitrates bottoming out? It’s about 14lbs of seachem matrix, 2 bricks, and 3-4lbs of bio rings.

I also used a large amount of biomedia in my sump. Specifically I put in two gallons of Seachem Matrix. I ended up removing half of it in order to get my nitrates up. At the one year mark I added all of the Seachem Matrix back in since once your tank matures it can be helpful to have more biomedia.

 

[Ryan03]

Thank you, the rocks I got when I bought the tank (tank was running) but I just gave them a vinegar bath before using (at the time I thought that would reset then I learned about going the bleach route). The tank is about 5 months old. I’m too nervous to dose ammonia as I lost about half of my fish about 2 month ago due to ich I’m just nervous about losing more however I was considering dosing Brightwell Neo Nitro to bring the nitrate up. Also not sure if it’d be related, but I have a really large amount of bio media (bio rings, seachem matrix, and bricks) could that possibly be the reason to my nitrates bottoming out? It’s about 14lbs of seachem matrix, 2 bricks, and 3-4lbs of bio rings.

I also used a large amount of biomedia in my sump. Specifically I put in two gallons of Seachem Matrix. I ended up removing half of it in order to get my nitrates up. At the one year mark I added all of the Seachem Matrix back in since once your tank matures it can be helpful to have more biomedia.

Oh yeah I also thought that’s where my issue was, do you think I should try removing some media before dosing nitrate? I have about 14lbs of seachem matrix, 2 bricks, and 3-4lbs of bio rings.

 

[Reef.]

Looks more like algae to me, what even you do tho don’t start reducing your nutrients unless that are crazy high which I doubt, or you will have dinos.

Probably your rocks releasing po4 as your sands looks fine, if it were dinos I would expect the white to look worse as dinos normally start there first

 

[EnterName]

Thank you, the rocks I got when I bought the tank (tank was running) but I just gave them a vinegar bath before using (at the time I thought that would reset then I learned about going the bleach route). The tank is about 5 months old. I’m too nervous to dose ammonia as I lost about half of my fish about 2 month ago due to ich I’m just nervous about losing more however I was considering dosing Brightwell Neo Nitro to bring the nitrate up. Also not sure if it’d be related, but I have a really large amount of bio media (bio rings, seachem matrix, and bricks) could that possibly be the reason to my nitrates bottoming out? It’s about 14lbs of seachem matrix, 2 bricks, and 3-4lbs of bio rings.

Having some outbreaks in a 5 month old tank is pretty normal I would say. You can probably just leave it be and it will sort itself out or will be replaced by something else. Messing with the tank during this time can sometimes do more harm than good.

If you decide that you still want to actively do something:

• Make sure the RO/DI water you use is at 0ppm TDS or 0µS/cm electrical conductivity, so no silicates are coming through. This would reduce golden algae/chrysophytes, and diatom growth if that is actually the underlying issue (I don't think so, but it won't hurt).
• Get your hands on a microscope and post pictures at 200 & 400x magnification of that stuff. If that's not an option some close up images (maybe after taking some stuff out of the tank) might help as well.
• Get an ICP-MS test as stated previously. It will ensure all your tests are actually correct and might show some other underlying issues.
• Try to see what happens when dosing nitrate. I assume this stuff will simply grow larger or phosphate will finally drop to 0. If both stay where they at something else is limiting growth (e.g. trace elements which the ICP-MS test will probably show), but it would show that the rocks no longer leech phosphates which would be nice.
• Manual removal with a toothbrush and a small net. Filter socks will have to be rinsed a few hours after each removal session to get all that stuff you didn't catch yourself out of the water.
• See what happens if you take out 1/3 or 1/2 of the bio-media.
• Throw in some copepods... never really hurts. Turn off the flow and add them when it's getting dark in case you have fish that would try to snack them right away.

 

[Ryan03]

Looks more like algae to me, what even you do tho don’t start reducing your nutrients unless that are crazy high which I doubt, or you will have dinos.

Probably your rocks releasing po4 as your sands looks fine, if it were dinos I would expect the white to look worse as dinos normally start there first

The sand was covered with those I just cleaned it up a few hours before making the thread that’s why it’s so white

 

[Ryan03]

Thank you, the rocks I got when I bought the tank (tank was running) but I just gave them a vinegar bath before using (at the time I thought that would reset then I learned about going the bleach route). The tank is about 5 months old. I’m too nervous to dose ammonia as I lost about half of my fish about 2 month ago due to ich I’m just nervous about losing more however I was considering dosing Brightwell Neo Nitro to bring the nitrate up. Also not sure if it’d be related, but I have a really large amount of bio media (bio rings, seachem matrix, and bricks) could that possibly be the reason to my nitrates bottoming out? It’s about 14lbs of seachem matrix, 2 bricks, and 3-4lbs of bio rings.

Having some outbreaks in a 5 month old tank is pretty normal I would say. You can probably just leave it be and it will sort itself out or will be replaced by something else. Messing with the tank during this time can sometimes do more harm than good.

If you decide that you still want to actively do something:

• Make sure the RO/DI water you use is at 0ppm TDS or 0µS/cm electrical conductivity, so no silicates are coming through. This would reduce golden algae/chrysophytes, and diatom growth if that is actually the underlying issue (I don't think so, but it won't hurt).
• Get your hands on a microscope and post pictures at 200 & 400x magnification of that stuff. If that's not an option some close up images (maybe after taking some stuff out of the tank) might help as well.
• Get an ICP-MS test as stated previously. It will ensure all your tests are actually correct and might show some other underlying issues.
• Try to see what happens when dosing nitrate. I assume this stuff will simply grow larger or phosphate will finally drop to 0. If both stay where they at something else is limiting growth (e.g. trace elements which the ICP-MS test will probably show), but it would show that the rocks no longer leech phosphates which would be nice.
• Manual removal with a toothbrush and a small net. Filter socks will have to be rinsed a few hours after each removal session to get all that stuff you didn't catch yourself out of the water.
• See what happens if you take out 1/3 or 1/2 of the bio-media.

Thank you

 

[Slack Tide Reef]

Just looks like a new tank. Do you have snails? I would beef up the clean up crew and ride it out for awhile and see if it goes away.

 

[twentyleagues]

That looks like hair algae or some other type of filamentous algae not dinos. What does your cuc consist of? what fish do you have? I dont like crabs they tend to be too opportunistic going for fish food before ever really doing anything for algae snails are usually better imo. Snails like Astraea are great algae eaters. Urchins are another good choice for algae of this type, but they can be a pain in the neck depending on how your mount your corals.

 

[Ryan03]

That looks like hair algae or some other type of filamentous algae not dinos. What does your cuc consist of? what fish do you have? I dont like crabs they tend to be too opportunistic going for fish food before ever really doing anything for algae snails are usually better imo. Snails like Astraea are great algae eaters. Urchins are another good choice for algae of this type, but they can be a pain in the neck depending on how your mount your corals.

Thank you, from reading your comment and others i think I’d also have to get more cuc as it’s currently very minimal due to a low bioload I have. Currently only have 2 clown and a juv foxface.