Is this ich?

Tikosyn · Oct 1, 2018

Welp, update. Got the other bellus angel out of the tank this morning, very lethargic. Got him into freshwater dip which was tap water temp matched, I didn’t have any heated RO. Then got him into qt tank with what I think is at therapeutic copper, who the hell knows. Long story short he’s dead and so is the male bellus, this is a crapshoot. No one else showing symptoms right now, plan is to assess situation when I get home from work. I’m making more RO water because of course I’m out of fresh saltwater. If anyone else shows signs tonight I’ll drain the tank and try to catch everything. I have a 10 gal I don’t use and actually a 75G tank I could transfer everyone to...is it better to just use tap water at this point? I can’t transfer 75g of water up 2 flights of stairs

Tikosyn · Oct 1, 2018

Or should I wait for my chloroquine phosphate to come in? I feel like I am killing the fish with copper because I can’t ramp up the dose

HotRocks · Oct 1, 2018

Tikosyn said:
Or should I wait for my chloroquine phosphate to come in? I feel like I am killing the fish with copper because I can’t ramp up the dose

You can ramp copper. Just only over 2 days. Instead of 3-5.

Honestly using copper power, I acclimate new fish into 1.0ppm copper then ramp them up to 1.75ppm in 3 days.

What copper are you using?

Tikosyn · Oct 1, 2018

I am using cupramine. I have a canister filter I was using on the 20 gal QT that I could use on the 75G but I am guessing the copper I added to the QT destroyed the biological filter.

My plan:

-Go to petsmart and buy more salt

-Tonight make as much saltwater as I can with the RO that I have on hand and producing right now but I don' think it will be enough to fill the entire 75G, should I use tap water for the rest? I don't really have a choice unless I wait or buy saltwater.

-Try to capture everything in my display but this is going to be so difficult, especially the tailspot blenny and royal gramma, they are so small and fast

- perform freshwater dips on everything even if they aren't showing symptoms followed by formalin baths

- Transfer everything I can catch to a 75 gallon QT

- Not sure how much cupramine to add to the QT, this is where I am stuck, especially since I don't have a test for it right now, and whatever trace amount is in my canister filter is going to mess with that.

- Try to find some kanaplex also, do I dose that with the cupramine?

- Also with basically no biological filter, plus copper wiping out any biological filter, how the heck am I supposed to keep copper therapeutic when I am doing water changes to keep up with ammonia? This seems like a losing battle. Can I use marine pure I have in the sump of my main tank as filtration for my QT? I am guessing it'll mess up the copper.

- Alternatively I can wait for my chloroquine phosphate to come in, but honestly I don't know if I have that kind of time, copper just seems so much harder to deal with. Is anyone located near Albany, NY that has chloroquine (chinese or otherwise I don't care, I'm desperate) be willing to help?

- Lastly, so far I don't have a confirmed diagnosis, the rest of my fish are acting normally, the two that died basically died by my hand trying to "save" them. I don't want to murder the rest of my fish putting them through all this, but I feel like if I don't act they are doomed anyways if it actually is velvet.

Tikosyn · Oct 1, 2018

New plan, set up QT tank tonight and I have choloroquine coming tomorrow by 3 pm. Is there any point in removing all the fish today until it arrives? or should i do it all in one shot

Tikosyn · Oct 1, 2018

Just got home, everyone looks ok, no flashing, no spots. Going to monitor until the chloroquine comes in tomorrow. If I see anything weird I’m going nuclear and using it in my display

wesman42 · Oct 1, 2018

Tikosyn said:
Just got home, everyone looks ok, no flashing, no spots. Going to monitor until the chloroquine comes in tomorrow. If I see anything weird I’m going nuclear and using it in my display

Honestly I would do this same thing. If the cost of the fish are greater than your corals and you care about them more....you can medicate directly into your display.

Keep in mind that sometimes the medications remain in the sand bed + rocks....so might have a FOWLR for a while after.

JumboShrimp · Oct 1, 2018

Before I started making RO I just bought 89-cent gallons of distilled water from the supermarket. Not ideal long-term, but in your situation, in a pinch...? (We are all pulling for you & your fish!)

Tikosyn · Oct 1, 2018

Thanks guys! My tank is basically a Fowler right now anyways, I have a Duncan, a half dead frogspawn, and two blastos, my cost of fish is way higher than coral. I am worried about my inverts but to quote Ivan Drago “If he dies, he dies.”

Tikosyn · Oct 3, 2018

Update: Really sad about the pair of bellus angels. I feel like I overreacted in this situation. I panicked and got them out of my tank asap, into a QT tank dosed with copper but I have no idea if the copper level was therapeutic or toxic, and I am pretty sure the freshwater dips ended up stressing them so much that they died. The female bellus died right after the dip. As far as the rest of my fish, no one else has any symptoms whatsoever, eating normally, no spots, no labored breathing, nothing. I am starting to believe this could have been ich and due to my poor skills at managing it, I killed 270 dollars worth of fish for no reason.

JumboShrimp · Oct 3, 2018

Ouch. Sorry you had to experience all that.

Tikosyn · Oct 6, 2018

Scratch all that, it's velvet. 1 week later and some of my fish are covered in spots. Nothing was displaying symptoms all week so I didn't use my chloroquine. I guess I get to just watch everything die now. No point in dosing chloroquine now. I am so sorry I ever started this hobby

wesman42 · Oct 6, 2018

Tikosyn said:
Scratch all that, it's velvet. 1 week later and some of my fish are covered in spots. Nothing was displaying symptoms all week so I didn't use my chloroquine. I guess I get to just watch everything die now. No point in dosing chloroquine now. I am so sorry I ever started this hobby

Do NOT give up. Separate your monetary contributions from your emotional response. It's super hard to do, but with this hobby it's a must.

Dose CP, ramp it up as quick as you can safely. @Humblefish

We will see if there any other emergent things you can do! Don't give up yet!!

Tikosyn · Oct 6, 2018

There is no good outcome here. I either dose my DT with chloroquine and kill all my inverts/coral and pray that the fish live even though they are already infected and showing symptoms or don't dose anything to DT and wait it out and pray they live, or they die but at least I save my coral and inverts? I don't know what to do! Can everyone verify this is velvet so i can be sure?

Tikosyn · Oct 6, 2018

Only reason I am not sure is I have been watching closely all week for key behavioral symptoms but I haven't seen any, I was thinking these were microbubbles

Tikosyn · Oct 6, 2018

For instance loss of appetite, just fed everyone and they are all eating, no swimming into powerhead, just these spots which is why I originally though Ich

GoldeneyeRet · Oct 6, 2018

Looks like velvet to o me. Dising CP in your display likely wont work as you have no way to monitor concentration and it will degrade/absorb.

Hospital tank is the way to go.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

JumboShrimp · Oct 6, 2018

No disrespect, but you know your tank. Micro bubbles from ‘where’ all of a sudden? Micro bubbles would look like “bubbles.” That looks like Marine Velvet. If you enjoy having corals, now and in the future, you will regret ever putting copper into your DT. You need to get as many buckets as you can for your water and make it ‘low tide’ in your DT and catch all your fish. I had a Kole Tang eating fine 24-48 hours before he started swimming into a powerhead; I got all 9-10 fish out and into a QT with copper. They all made it except him—he was dead in the QT the next day. I ramped up the copper over 2-3 days and he was already too far along with the Velvet.