Is this velvet on my Gem???

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by gobble, May 14, 2019.

  1. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    IMG_1272 (2).JPG
     

  2. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    I bought him 6 weeks ago. Did the full Hotrocks quarantine at 2.0 of copper power for 2 weeks. Bought a second tank, filter, heater, etc and moved him after the 2 weeks. None of my other fish are showing any symptoms of anything. I have the fish trap in the tank now trying to catch him. He looked perfect yesterday.

    I do think I had flukes in the tank and so far have done a single dose of prazipro.
     
  3. sean rand

    sean rand Well-Known Member

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    Looks like flukes. Did u do a FW dip to verify?
     
  4. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    I caught him. I just did a freshwater dip and didn't see anything obvious come off. I still have the fresh water I dipped him in.

    I quickly put him in a hospital tank and immediately dosed copper power to 2.0. I hope that isn't too much of a shock for him.
     
  5. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    In my trap

    IMG_1281.JPG
     
  6. BadFish619

    BadFish619 Active Member R2R Supporter

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    Yikes! Hoping its nothing
     
  7. sean rand

    sean rand Well-Known Member

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    Stunning fish. Hope he pulls through. Plz keep us posted!!
     
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  8. sean rand

    sean rand Well-Known Member

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    1 other question, did u qt all ur other fish, coral and inverts?
     
  9. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    I did not quarantine anything until this last batch of fish. I just put 4 tangs and a wrasse through a 5 week quarantine.

    Prior to that, I had a pair of clowns, 5 firefish, 2 cardinals, a flame angel, a flame hawk and a diamond goby that had been in my tank a couple years. I think there may have been ick in my tank but it didn't bother anyone too much. A spot here and there that went away quickly.
     
  10. Softhammer

    Softhammer Active Member

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    How stable is your Salinity? I very much think a lot of you over analyze a couple ich spots and end up killing fish. I would not mess around with that boy. Make sure you top off regimen is rock solid. It takes very little variation to cause ich on any tang. That same stands for all water parameters. I personally would not have removed that guy. Feed him a high quality algae based diet and make sure your water stays pristine, which should go without saying in any reef tank.
     
  11. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    It looks a bit like ich to me, but it’s so hard to tell with Gem tangs with all of those spots.

    Unfortunately, if you were “managing” ich with your other fish... this guy might be a little more difficult to acclimate to the parasites. Treating him won’t matter if he’s going back into the same tank, you’d either need to pull ALL of the fish for treatment and allow the tank to run fallow for 76 days...

    Or, if you’d like to attempt to continue to manage ich, you might need to take some extra steps to control the population and bolster the fish’s immune system. UV filter set to a very slow flow rate might be helpful. And, after two weeks of copper (since he is already there) transfer to a second tank and start feeding foods containing probiotics ( LRS) live worms, live baby brine, fresh clams, nori soaked in vita-chem or zoecon, etc.

    Personally, I’ve been in your shoes and went with eradication... and I’m happy I did...but ultimately the choice is yours.

    Ich eradication vs. Ich management
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...ation-vs.-Ich-management.188775/&share_type=t
     
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  12. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    Ich it is then I guess. I checked on him this morning in the copper and it's difficult to see if all the little white spots are still there. Thanks for the link I've read through that in the past (I've spent a lot of time on the diseases forum since deciding to quarantine these tangs). The thought of going fallow for almost 3 months is a difficult one. I don't know how I'd even catch every fish without tearing the tank apart.

    In the last few years I'd maybe see a single spot here or there on a fish that would disappear in a day. I figured ich existed in my tank but it never rose to the level of anything to worry about. This Gem seems so strong and dominant in the tank so I'm surprised he'd be the fish that would get infested with it.

    To the earlier question, the tank is extremely stable. All the SPS corals are thriving right now and I believe benefit from that stability.
     
  13. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    You could always try the theoretical “reverse QT”. Treat him, get him fat and healthy again... feed a variety of algae and live, quality frozen foods enriched with vitamins/ selcon, etc.

    Once you feel like he is completely recovered from the treatment... spike the QT. Add a piece of sacrificial live rock from your main tank, sump, etc. a clump of chaeto... whatever you have that might bring a hitchhiker over.

    See what happens. If you see a spot or two, vacuum the tank bottom and do a water change every few days to keep the populations under control while continuing to feed heavily. Wait some more and just see if he can overcome it on his own.

    If not, he’s already in QT and can be re-treated and rehomed if it won’t work out in your tank.

    Full disclaimer: This is just an idea, nothing I’ve actually tried first-hand. I had some time to think about how I would handle new introductions if I did decide to just manage crypto when I had my outbreak. I ended up treating instead, but the ideas were flying lol
     
  14. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    That's an interesting concept. I might just try it.

    Or maybe I upgrade to a giant tank that stretches the entire wall in my office and start over ich free???
     
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  15. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Wall tank? Um yea, that gets my vote

    But, If you do try the reverse QT idea, let me know how it works out! There’s been some talk about adding a new section for natural disease management, so I know there would be some interest in the outcome.
     
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  16. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    But I suppose if I introduce ich into the quarantine after 30 days (or 14 days maybe) and he becomes infested with it again I need to start over and quarantine again for 30 days?

    I feel terrible seeing that poor fish stuck in a glass box full of PVC. I guess better that then dead though.
     
  17. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Yea... I mean, it’s a Gem tang... not the fish you really want to “experiment” on.

    You could abort copper, put him back in the DT and hope he can fight it off... risky but maybe less so then intentionally infecting the QT, since it’s a less stressful and more stable environment. I’d strongly suggest investing in the UV if you go this way, as big a unit as you can manage.

    Or pull and treat your DT fish as well and reintroduce everyone ich-free after the 76 days.
     
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  18. DucatiGtr

    DucatiGtr Member

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    Velvet usually appears under 15 days in a qt in my experience unless the tank is huge.... so might be something else.

    I have a gem, mimic, and a bluethroat in a 40 qt.. two month now.. they had velvet.. I even have videos of the gem swimming into the powerhead flow like a treadmill.

    When you guys say 2.0 for copper that’s only the Hanna checker? Ive been using the salifert kit and I want to get closer to the 1 range.. all
    Eating and doing well but then gym has one cloudy eye that won’t go away w metro, kana and even prazi.. hope it’s not permanent damage.. I’ll do another month of copper then observe another month or so.. so annoying.
     
  19. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    What kind of copper are you using? The therapeutic target for Cupramine (ionic copper) is .5

    For Copper Power (chelated) you want to be somewhere between 1.75-2.0 at least
     
  20. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    The cloudy eye is likely secondary infection. Very common with parasites and while using copper, which is an immunosuppressant.

    I would try Furan-2, which can be used with copper. If it’s still lingering after the copper treatment is completed (14 days if you have a second sterile QT and can transfer without lowering copper level) then you can follow-up with a more aggressive treatment with Triple Sulfa + Furan-2 or NFG (preferred).
     
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