It's all @Paul B's fault... my journey to an immune reef (hopefully!)

[ngoodermuth]

It does look and sound like classic velvet, but he may be fighting off a secondary infection as well (extremely common with velvet due to numerous insertion points) and of course antibiotics would not help in your case of achieving immunity.

My suggestion would be a quick freshwater dip if you can catch him to help reduce the number of parasites, up his feeding and soak his food in vitamins and selcon, and if you can without hurting other livestock shorten your light cycle a bit.

 

[Gweeds1980]

It does look and sound like classic velvet, but he may be fighting off a secondary infection as well (extremely common with velvet due to numerous insertion points) and of course antibiotics would not help in your case of achieving immunity.

My suggestion would be a quick freshwater dip if you can catch him to help reduce the number of parasites, up his feeding and soak his food in vitamins and selcon, and if you can without hurting other livestock shorten your light cycle a bit.

Any benefit in adding h2o2 to the FW dip?

 

[jasonrusso]

It does look and sound like classic velvet, but he may be fighting off a secondary infection as well (extremely common with velvet due to numerous insertion points) and of course antibiotics would not help in your case of achieving immunity.

My suggestion would be a quick freshwater dip if you can catch him to help reduce the number of parasites, up his feeding and soak his food in vitamins and selcon, and if you can without hurting other livestock shorten your light cycle a bit.

Maybe soak his food in CP, or if he eats pellets feed the NLS ick shield food

 

[ngoodermuth]

I think (I could be wrong) that in the immune reef scenario you'd want as little exposure to chemicals as possible. I'm not sure where H202 would stand as far as harshness to beneficial bacteria and as an immunosuppressant. I believe @Humblefish was doing some experiments with it as a dip, he might be able to offer more perspective.

 

[Gweeds1980]

I think (I could be wrong) that in the immune reef scenario you'd want as little exposure to chemicals as possible. I'm not sure where H202 would stand as far as harshness to beneficial bacteria and as an immunosuppressant. I believe @Humblefish was doing some experiments with it as a dip, he might be able to offer more perspective.

True. I certainly don't want to dose the tank with h2o2, but was thinking as part of the FW dip... maybe a minute only with 1ml / 10gal ratio, which I know fish will tolerate happily (prior to going down the immune route I treated cyano with 10ml / 100gal h2o2 @ 6%).

Will leave him for the moment as still feeding well and monitor. I'm pleased the rest haven't come down with it 'yet'. Time will tell i guess.

 

[Humblefish]

@Gweeds1980 Looks like that Heniochus has velvet to me. It is difficult, but not impossible, for a fish to build up immunity to that parasite.

A 5 min FW dip will remove 80-90% of the trophonts. I like to follow that up with a 90 minute acriflavine bath, but in theory H2O2 should work almost as well being it is also an antiseptic. I never got around to testing, but @twilliard & I agreed that using 1 ml per gallon of 3% H2O2 for 30 minutes would be a good starting point.

 

[Humblefish]

FYI; Hydrogen Peroxide is mentioned in the links below as a possible treatment for velvet:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/sp/feature/index.htm

http://agrilife.org/fisheries/files...mportant-Parasite-of-Cultured-Marine-Fish.pdf

http://www.ultimatereef.com/articles/marinevelvet/

 

[Amoo]

Following as a show of support for outside the box thinking. This may work for you or it may not, but as somebody who does similar things in the Nem world I applaud your efforts of trying "new" things in a semi-scientific manner.

Not really sure how I can call anything that has to do with @Paul B new considering he was around for the Last Supper, but still.

 

[jasonrusso]

Following as a show of support for outside the box thinking. This may work for you or it may not, but as somebody who does similar things in the Nem world I applaud your efforts of trying "new" things in a semi-scientific manner.

Not really sure how I can call anything that has to do with @Paul B new considering he was around for the Last Supper, but still.

Everything was created (including all of our proven methods) by someone trying something different.

 

[Paul B]

Not really sure how I can call anything that has to do with @Paul B new considering he was around for the Last Supper, but still.

The last supper was over rated, the steak was over cooked as was the pasta and the wine was served in a Box. Jesus was cool though. My kind of guy.

 

[Gweeds1980]

@Gweeds1980 Looks like that Heniochus has velvet to me. It is difficult, but not impossible, for a fish to build up immunity to that parasite.

A 5 min FW dip will remove 80-90% of the trophonts. I like to follow that up with a 90 minute acriflavine bath, but in theory H2O2 should work almost as well being it is also an antiseptic. I never got around to testing, but @twilliard & I agreed that using 1 ml per gallon of 3% H2O2 for 30 minutes would be a good starting point.

Thanks, I was thinking h2o2 to set back any secondary infections too. As mentioned, I'm not after a 'cure', just to alleviate symptoms.

Checked this am and he's still as he has been for the past 10 days... swimming into flow etc but still feeding.

I'll do a dip this evening assuming I can catch him!

Thanks.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Ok, this is odd... literally the day after I was getting worried and he seems to be on the mend... spots gone, colour returning and less hiding / swimming into flow

I think he's gonna make it without any treatment

Now just hoping the rest have developed resistance!! Be interesting to see what happens with my copperband... he's been in my QT during this whole time, helping out with an aips outbreak. Didn't want to put him back in until I knew what was happening with the heni, particularly as the only fish affected was a BF.

 

[Paul B]

@Gweeds1980

A 5 min FW dip will remove 80-90% of the trophonts. I like to follow that up with a 90 minute acriflavine bath, but in theory H2O2 should work almost as well being it is also an antiseptic. I never got around to testing, but @twilliard & I agreed that using 1 ml per gallon of 3% H2O2 for 30 minutes would be a good starting point.

FYI; Hydrogen Peroxide is mentioned in the links below as a possible treatment for velvet:

Yes, then I would perform an appendectomy, chest compressions while at the same time giving mouth to mouth resuscitation. But after that, take that hydrogen peroxide and gargle with it so you don't have fish breath. My suggestion is to leave that fish alone and go out to dinner. Well it's 4:00am here now so go out to breakfast, have coffee instead of wine.
Good Luck.

(Good Morning Humble )

 

[Gweeds1980]

Yes, then I would perform an appendectomy, chest compressions while at the same time giving mouth to mouth resuscitation. But after that, take that hydrogen peroxide and gargle with it so you don't have fish breath. My suggestion is to leave that fish alone and go out to dinner. Well it's 4:00am here now so go out to breakfast, have coffee instead of wine.
Good Luck.

(Good Morning Humble )

Thanks Paul, all good advice

As it happens I've not treated with anything and yesterday saw a vast improvement

This morning I've noticed a further improvement, but now my OST has started flashing too... hopefulky he pulls through too. No other fish showing any symptoms. Ah well, we live and learn eh?

 

[Paul B]

Well if you are trying to get them immune your doing it. I don't know if it is the right way to do it but medications will screw it all up. All those spots you see on the sides of the fish don't mean anything. They were probably dead parasites and if you looked close, you would se they had they eyes closed and their arms folded across their chest. The Christian parasites would be holding little crucifixes which the Jewish Parasites would be wearing yamakas. The fishes slime probably killed them and being the slime is water soluble, they wash off which the slime is supposed to do. It's the parasites in the gills that kill the fish and it's not even because they are sucking blood or dancing the macarana. It's just that they are taking up room in places that should be absorbing oxygen which kills the fish so they are really just killing the fish by accident as they don't want to kill their meal ticket.
But I hope your fish pull through and if they do, you can put moose parasites in there and nothing would happen. I am not sure if you even have mooses in the UK. I am sure they would not infect my fish which I am sure are not immune but the fact that I am very "lucky".

Good luck with your experiment.

Not really sure how I can call anything that has to do with @Paul B new considering he was around for the Last Supper, but still.

I just remembered one more thing about the last Supper. That painter Michelangelo kept splattering paint on the food as he was painting the ceiling, he was a real pain as was the photographer because he wanted them to pose drinking wine but all they wanted to do was wash each other's feet which is not appropriate at the supper table, especially the Last one if you know what I mean.
But Jesus is my BFF so he was cool even though he just kept looking up and rolling his eyes.

It also took a long time for us to eat because Jesus doesn't believe in killing fish so we were all waiting around for them to die of old age, or velvet.

 

[tj w]

The spots disappearing is all part of the velvet cycle. I've dealt with two crashes from this. It will return and be worse in a couple days. It will also affect your other fish too. Not trying to be negative here just sharing my experience with it

 

[Gweeds1980]

The spots disappearing is all part of the velvet cycle. I've dealt with two crashes from this. It will return and be worse in a couple days. It will also affect your other fish too. Not trying to be negative here just sharing my experience with it

Thanks... apparently that also happens with ich and brook... it hasn't in my tank, not yet at least and that was about 6 months ago... all this feeding and adding biodiversity and keeping parasite numbers low can't possibly be working... can it??

 

[tj w]

Ha ha, good luck sir!

 

[Paul B]

all this feeding and adding biodiversity and keeping parasite numbers low can't possibly be working... can it??

Don't be ridiculous

 

[Gweeds1980]

Don't be ridiculous

Glad you got the sarcasm