It's all @Paul B's fault... my journey to an immune reef (hopefully!)

[Brew12]

Thanks - not sure this makes the point that tangs shouldn't be kept in (large) tanks. It seems the bigger the tang the further they go from their home base. But - this is off topic here . thank for the links

It was an older post of mine, but I think the point I was making is that they can swim away from parasites by moving a few meters or more from when the parasites release. As opposed to clowns which can live in the same anemone for much of their lives.
Tangs being kept in tanks, large or small, is an interesting but separate topic.

 

[Paul B]

I'm looking for details regarding your Ozone system and how you run your skimmer effluent over the 4' trough. Do you run an internal or external skimmer?

I have an external DIY skimmer and a 4' trough that the effluent runs over. Since I moved 7 weeks ago i have not yet hooked up my ozonizer or added the trough and am not sure when ir if I ever will. My ozonizer seems to have croaked and I need time to see if I can repair it. I would like it running only because it has always been on there. My fish look no worse now with nothing connected and are still healthy

 

[Land Shark]

You want detailed information on Paul’s ozone system? The real key is this DIY foam refractioner he made that serves double duty as as oversized ozone reactor. In this tall, 6 foot or so reaction chamber, a rather large volume of foam is exposed to ozone for a very long time. It’s that long ozone dwell time that makes this ozone system so effective over the many years of long term use.

 

[Paul B]

It’s that long ozone dwell time that makes this ozone system so effective over the many years of long term use.

If that's it, then maybe everyone should have one. It cost about $10.00 to build. Not counting the 2 pumps to run it.

 

[Land Shark]

If that's it, then maybe everyone should have one. It cost about $10.00 to build. Not counting the 2 pumps to run it.

Providing the details specifically asked for.

There is no “it”. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I did everything you preach for three years except for the ozone. I even live by the ocean and brougjt home live stuff all the time and yet I still had some fish loss issues. It was after adding in the last component of “advanced filtration”, aka ozone, when my disease issues finally went away. I thank you for that sir.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Those that run ozone. Are they in your living space? Do you smell the ozone? Would ozone be something you would use in a bed room or living room?

 

[Paul B]

Don't you ever sleep? Anyway, I have not fixed my ozonizer yet but hope to soon. If anyone uses my system (which isn't my system it is Mother Nature's System) it will be tough to get started unless you do it when you set up the tank.

My "system" is the easiest system because it is not a system but the lack of a system. No quarantine, no hospital tanks, no medications, no nothing so it's not really a system but you should have some Grand Marnier around so you can watch your healthy fish from a comfortable chair while others are waiting 72 days before they add their fish, many of which will croak before that time as fish don't like quarantine.
See how many mandarins or copperbands live through that.

 

[Paul B]

Those that run ozone. Are they in your living space? Do you smell the ozone? Would ozone be something you would use in a bed room or living room?

I never smell ozone and would set up a 567 gallon reef right next to my bed. If you smell ozone, you did it wrong as ozone depletes almost as soon as it's made if it is in enough volume of water. My skimmer is large enough to deplete ozone even if I put my very in proportion nose right over the skimmer. Of course if you unplug the ozone hose and sniff, you will get an instant headache and your nose hairs will rot off, but that's what ozone is supposed to do. It is great stuff and I don't know why so many people are afraid of it yet they use all sorts of chemicals like stump remover and insecticide in their tank.

 

[Gareth elliott]

@PaulB

I have used in tank anti parasitics once and only once. I had 15 koi with anchor worm. There were too many fish to feasibly remove manually. That was almost 10 years ago.

I dont get the stump remover tbh planted aquariums have been dosing pure n,p and k for decades. Why the reefing community needs a a diy solution thats worse than the original is beyond me.

I have used insecticide to dip corals. This is more for coral parasites than fish parasites.

I think its the words ozone, gas, and toxic. My generation from an early age was(at least in schools i attended, military brat there were several lol) instilled the dangers of ozone and other smog related gasses.

By chance anyone see the case decided against monsanto?

Hoping this slows down the use of round up and insecticide ready crops.

 

[Land Shark]

I never smell ozone and would set up a 567 gallon reef right next to my bed. If you smell ozone, you did it wrong as ozone depletes almost as soon as it's made if it is in enough volume of water. My skimmer is large enough to deplete ozone even if I put my very in proportion nose right over the skimmer. Of course if you unplug the ozone hose and sniff, you will get an instant headache and your nose hairs will rot off, but that's what ozone is supposed to do. It is great stuff and I don't know why so many people are afraid of it yet they use all sorts of chemicals like stump remover and insecticide in their tank.

 

[MnFish1]

@PaulB. Here is an experiment. Take a known amount of oodinium - a normally lethal dose - and drop it into your tank. (or CI) - ie. one that would normally cause a death of 50% of the fish. I'd like to see how your fish do under those circumstances without ozone.

 

[MnFish1]

Don't you ever sleep? Anyway, I have not fixed my ozonizer yet but hope to soon. If anyone uses my system (which isn't my system it is Mother Nature's System) it will be tough to get started unless you do it when you set up the tank.

Key point Paul - I don't use Ozone either - and I dont expect to have any problems unless I add something 'new' to the tank. Mother Nature does not use ozone in the concentrations in your skimmer . Biology is biology.

 

[Paul B]

@PaulB. Here is an experiment. Take a known amount of oodinium - a normally lethal dose - and drop it into your tank. (or CI) - ie. one that would normally cause a death of 50% of the fish. I'd like to see how your fish do under those circumstances without ozone.

I want to add some fish soon because this tank is a little larger than my previous one. And over last year I lost a few fish to old age like a pair of Bangai Cardinals. I will get some fish and if I find any with obvious ich, oodinium, velvet, or anything else it is of no concern to me so I will try to get a decent picture of the disease before I dump them in. Of course most people will still tell me how lucky I am and refer to that Russian Roulette thing even though I can't speak Russian. But it will be interesting being I have not run my Ozonizer in about 2 months. I did however add NSW quite a few times and the tank is now almost all NSW. I also didn't collect mud yet but hopefully this or next week. It just so happens that every time I took my boat to a lagoon it was high tide and hard to collect anything except snails which I added about a dozen.

 

[MnFish1]

I want to add some fish soon because this tank is a little larger than my previous one. And over last year I lost a few fish to old age like a pair of Bangai Cardinals. I will get some fish and if I find any with obvious ich, oodinium, velvet, or anything else it is of no concern to me so I will try to get a decent picture of the disease before I dump them in. Of course most people will still tell me how lucky I am and refer to that Russian Roulette thing even though I can't speak Russian. But it will be interesting being I have not run my Ozonizer in about 2 months. I did however add NSW quite a few times and the tank is now almost all NSW. I also didn't collect mud yet but hopefully this or next week. It just so happens that every time I took my boat to a lagoon it was high tide and hard to collect anything except snails which I added about a dozen.

No Paul there is a difference. Finding fish that are infected already may be immune. I said put CI or velvet in the tank at a known lethal dose. I would like to see how “immune” your fish are

 

[Paul B]

Finding fish that are. Texted already may be immune. I said put Co or velvet at a known lethal dose I. Your tank is like to see how “immune” it is

Rephrase this as I have no idea what we are talking about.

 

[MnFish1]

I want to add some fish soon because this tank is a little larger than my previous one. And over last year I lost a few fish to old age like a pair of Bangai Cardinals. I will get some fish and if I find any with obvious ich, oodinium, velvet, or anything else it is of no concern to me so I will try to get a decent picture of the disease before I dump them in. Of course most people will still tell me how lucky I am and refer to that Russian Roulette thing even though I can't speak Russian. But it will be interesting being I have not run my Ozonizer in about 2 months. I did however add NSW quite a few times and the tank is now almost all NSW. I also didn't collect mud yet but hopefully this or next week. It just so happens that every time I took my boat to a lagoon it was high tide and hard to collect anything except snails which I added about a dozen.

Ps. There is no evidence that the nsw you add or the mud you add contains pathogenic bacteria or parasites. This is the problem.

 

[MnFish1]

Rephrase this as I have no idea what we are talking about.

Sorry I was using my phone I edited it already. Lol

 

[Gareth elliott]

How would one conduct that experiment outside a lab?

The encrusting stage of say velvet is ~10micrometers. The largest stage is ~300micrometers.

 

[jasonrusso]

No Paul there is a difference. Finding fish that are infected already may be immune. I said put CI or velvet in the tank at a known lethal dose. I would like to see how “immune” your fish are

If they are infected, how are they immune?

 

[Paul B]

Immune fish can still be infected. Almost all the fish we buy that were in the sea have immunity but are infected. Their immunity just isn't working because the fish is stressed and probably hasn't eaten in a week or two. If the fish isn't put in favorably conditions, it will die. But if it is taken care of, it's immunity (mostly concentrated in it's slime) will ward off the parasites and the fish will be stronger for it.

People have been telling me to put infected fish into my tank for decades and the truth is that I do that all the time and always post about it. It is an on going thing and it will continuously go on as many people don't understand immunity or can't achieve it.
To say that the mud, amphipods, fish, seaweed, crabs, shrimp and amphipods I have been adding for 40 years may not be infected with anything is ludicrous. To imply that the dozens of fish I added to this tank over the years from LFSs were all healthy is just silly.

Many people on this and other forums have come to my house over the years and saw my tank. If any of them are still in the hobby and are on here, do any of you remember seeing a quarantine tank, hospital tank or medications in my house? Any spots on my fish? A missing scale? Headache? anything?