I've come to a conclusion about LED's

[Scorpius]

that unless you a running a lot of units over a tank, you will not get the coverage you need. The LED lights that have their diodes spread out over an entire panel seem best. My Kessil A360we's create so much shadowing for my sps and I even went with one 360we per foot of tank. I recently added T5's to my Kessil 360we's and wow what a difference. The shadows are mostly gone and I can see all the undersides of my sps and it's not pretty.

Hopefully everything that's pale colors back up and my system starts looking even better than what I thought it was prior to the T5's.

Who knows I may just go all T5 and use the 360we's for sunrise/sunset/shimmer supplementation.

 

[landlubber]

i'd like to hear how the guys running the radion gen 4 feel about their fixtures as the claim is that they don't suffer the same issue. just so you know, i run a 8x54w sunpower at the moment so i don't have a dog in this fight but i will definitely consider radions next time around.

 

[Mrx7899]

I did the same thing had leds only over the tank didn't like the shadowing added t5 supplement lights liked it so much I went t5s only. Tank looks so much better

 

[chomoney]

I totally agree with this.

I find that I nearly need 3 radions plus T5 supplement (I can only fit 3" t5s on my 4 ft tank) to get full coverage.

Obviously this is overkill in terms of (potential) power, but coverage is just not great from 2 radions compared to the advertised spread.

 

[MagisterDamask]

+1 on totally agreeing on this.

I have two Hydra 26HD's above my tank, their coverage is great. However, I supplement with three ATI T5's (2 blue plus, 1 coral plus) because I feel that there is some shadowing and T5s are battle tested and proven to grow corals over and over again. My tank is also 4ft.

When the Hydra's reach their peak in the ramp up, then the T5's switch on and I love the coverage.

In all my 13 years in the saltwater hobby, the T5s have always been good to me, the spread and coverage is unmatched.

 

[bif24701]

Yet none have seen what the Kessil AP700s can do. It's a shame that you group things together like this and generalize. It's unfair because you are missing out on the best advances in lighting to come out in years. It's ok though, not everyone is meant to be a pioneer with new technologies and who wants to spend so much money on something that hasn't "proven" its self. However I feel compelled to speak when I see all fixtures grouped together as LEDs. Who here would say that all T5s are T5s? I guess any old T5 bulb and fixture, reflector, ballast will do right? Why not, it's T5s and they are "proven". I don't have any LEDs, just the Kessil AP700.

 

[bif24701]

Truth be told the very best lighting solutions will always be a hybrid anyway.

 

[BoomCorals]

Been using LED only for a few years. Never had a problem. Plenty of successful tanks with all LED.

 

[bif24701]

that unless you a running a lot of units over a tank, you will not get the coverage you need. The LED lights that have their diodes spread out over an entire panel seem best. My Kessil A360we's create so much shadowing for my sps and I even went with one 360we per foot of tank. I recently added T5's to my Kessil 360we's and wow what a difference. The shadows are mostly gone and I can see all the undersides of my sps and it's not pretty.

Hopefully everything that's pale colors back up and my system starts looking even better than what I thought it was prior to the T5's.

Who knows I may just go all T5 and use the 360we's for sunrise/sunset/shimmer supplementation.

I think you will find that your combination of the 360s and T5s has the best of both worlds to your desire for shimmer, color, growth, and reduced shadows.

The very best reef tanks I've ever seen in person utilized this exact combo with success. Personally I think it may be the very best solution for lighting there is. You have the color pop and shimmer with the Kessils plus all the great things that T5s do as well.

Though T5s maybe the very best thing every to be put over a reef tank for coral health and vigor. I just will never get over the flat artificial look of a T5 only display. I started with MH but gave them up easily when the Kessils appeared on the market. The heat, bulb replacing, power costs, and restricted made it ran easy choice to try the new Kessil design. With my new system I've hung two AP700s over my 180 and I was surprised myself at their achievement for coverage, spreader and reduced shadows even as a Kessil fan.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Well I'm stuck on led for now. I love all the lights. But yea led can be a trick.
I like a broad spread and a good shimmer. That's mh. So I've modded the look of my leds to match that as best I can.
I do belive you need a lot of small leds close or a big one from far away. Light is about angles and have to fill shadows in from different angles.
T5 is easy it's a giant light source. Hopefully the width of the tank
A halide with a big reflector same. But a mh pendent is more like a kessil and the more the better. In a 48 x14 I'd want four. On a 48 x 24 want 8. That's kinda why the ap700 works so well. They really just lucked out that lens that emitter that reflector just happens to work like magic. It an old proven design it's not new. Theirs just has the juce. Otherwise I'd never buy a kessil because they appearnatly propagated the can't par OR led meter Tier leds cuz some fake science nonsense. That helped no one in reefing. Bad enough they don't publis a single spec. All I want to know is it high med or low power for cottoms sake so I can but the right one. That and it makes me have a scone migraine.

But the trick is use a lot of different angles and to bounce around light off the walls of the tank. Don't aim for the bottom aim for the top. And there's different ways to do it ya jsunneed to know how much power you want or need in PAR.


Me fav so far was t5 and a orbit strip on a standard 55. I replaced it with the orbit and three ai sol's super close with a diffusion. I tried with no lenses but this is better.
There's still something wonky with the spectrum of the sol's. I lost some thing there. The native spectrum is not right. I'm getting ready to play with that.
So on my tank it's now three 5in x12in light sources 9in from the water. And the orbit strip down the side of those in the back.
I lost less than one 1/4 power from the diffusion. It's about 700par at the top and 60% intensity.
But the light source is now 10in wide and soft With sharp shimmers from the lenses of the led through the light diffusion.

 

[nolaron]

I've been running g3 radions for a year. I recently added a 4 bulb retro 48" and in the past 2 weeks I've seen a drastic difference in color, grown and coral health. I won't be going back to LED only.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I've been running g3 radions for a year. I recently added a 4 bulb retro 48" and in the past 2 weeks I've seen a drastic difference in color, grown and coral health. I won't be going back to LED only.

Wow. That has to look great in person.
That probaly added like 5 600 par to the top . Did you lower the intensity of the leds?

 

[MagisterDamask]

Yet none have seen what the Kessil AP700s can do. It's a shame that you group things together like this and generalize. It's unfair because you are missing out on the best advances in lighting to come out in years. It's ok though, not everyone is meant to be a pioneer with new technologies and who wants to spend so much money on something that hasn't "proven" its self. However I feel compelled to speak when I see all fixtures grouped together as LEDs. Who here would say that all T5s are T5s? I guess any old T5 bulb and fixture, reflector, ballast will do right? Why not, it's T5s and they are "proven". I don't have any LEDs, just the Kessil AP700.

Not sure I can read your tone here, but I've seen the AP700's in action. I have a friend that runs them. He ran two of them to start with and after probably six months he added T5 retro's in front of and behind the AP700's because of some shadowing, the same reason I added T5's to my Hydra's.

They are all Light Emitting Diodes whether they are clustered or single, or if they have radion, kessil or AI stamped on them. I don't believe we are including Chinese made LEDs in this conversation, I've only heard Radion's, Hydra's and Kessil's mentioned so far.

To say not everyone is meant to be a pioneer is a bit unfair. For most people, if you want results, you emulate what other people have done to achieve success, especially when it comes to lighting. Who wants to throw money at something and hope it works?

PAR, PUR, and spectrum are things that someone coming into the hobby isn't going to understand right away, so finding out what others have done to succeed and using that knowledge as a building block and improving on it is how you win at it.

I personally have an "old" T5 with "old reflectors" and yes, I consider it a T5. It works, that's all that matters, the corals grow great under it, the spread is good, par is in a very acceptable range.

Some disadvantages of T5s is they do not do the shimmer effect, they are not as energy efficient as LEDs and sometimes the ballasts can become noisy.

Will they improve upon LEDs and eventually phase out T5s? I absolutely believe they can do it, I would never deny technological advancement. They have diffusers, and focusing lenses for them and in the near future someone will hit a grand slam with it.

I don't have T5s, I don't have LEDs, I have a mixture that works great for me. Kessil AP700s didn't impress me enough to run out and buy them as soon as they were fired up, or 6 months later, and the controllability with the app was lacking. So that's my opinion on them, and it's just MY opinion. Will, Kessil improve upon them, absolutely.

 

[Murica]

Anyone running metal halide? I feel like those are phasing out

 

[Water Dog]

As "pioneering" as people think the AP700 is in terms of LED technology, at the end of the day, it is still point source LED lighting... only 2 pucks per fixture. Coverage may be great but shadowing is still inevitable. Mind you, I consider coverage and shadowing to be two very different and mutually exclusive things. It speaks volumes about this issue when you see the BRS 160 tank using 2 Kessil AP700 fixtures but still requiring T5 supplementation to overcome the shadowing effects inherent in the puck style LED fixtures.

 

[bif24701]

Not sure I can read your tone here, but I've seen the AP700's in action. I have a friend that runs them. He ran two of them to start with and after probably six months he added T5 retro's in front of and behind the AP700's because of some shadowing, the same reason I added T5's to my Hydra's.

They are all Light Emitting Diodes whether they are clustered or single, or if they have radion, kessil or AI stamped on them. I don't believe we are including Chinese made LEDs in this conversation, I've only heard Radion's, Hydra's and Kessil's mentioned so far.

To say not everyone is meant to be a pioneer is a bit unfair. For most people, if you want results, you emulate what other people have done to achieve success, especially when it comes to lighting. Who wants to throw money at something and hope it works?

PAR, PUR, and spectrum are things that someone coming into the hobby isn't going to understand right away, so finding out what others have done to succeed and using that knowledge as a building block and improving on it is how you win at it.

I personally have an "old" T5 with "old reflectors" and yes, I consider it a T5. It works, that's all that matters, the corals grow great under it, the spread is good, par is in a very acceptable range.

Some disadvantages of T5s is they do not do the shimmer effect, they are not as energy efficient as LEDs and sometimes the ballasts can become noisy.

Will they improve upon LEDs and eventually phase out T5s? I absolutely believe they can do it, I would never deny technological advancement. They have diffusers, and focusing lenses for them and in the near future someone will hit a grand slam with it.

I don't have T5s, I don't have LEDs, I have a mixture that works great for me. Kessil AP700s didn't impress me enough to run out and buy them as soon as they were fired up, or 6 months later, and the controllability with the app was lacking. So that's my opinion on them, and it's just MY opinion. Will, Kessil improve upon them, absolutely.

I made a point annnnnnnd there it's gone.

I also added T5s, a pair of 60" ATI Blue Plus because a great set of ATI Blue Plus bulbs have huge advantages so do the Kessils.

 

[bif24701]

Anyone running metal halide? I feel like those are phasing out

MH are phased out, basically dead when you compare the number current users. You can still buy them but it's becoming increasingly limited market.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

MH are phased out, basically dead when you compare the number current users. You can still buy them but it's becoming increasingly limited market.

its too bad, theyre pretty. A few MH guys seem to like the kessils for their color. they use like pendants.

 

[Ty Hamatake]

Once you go hybrid...

 

[MagisterDamask]

I made a point annnnnnnd there it's gone.

I also added T5s, a pair of 60" ATI Blue Plus because a great set of ATI Blue Plus bulbs have huge advantages so do the Kessils.

Why is your point gone? That was your opinion right?

If you added T5's then why the speech on the pioneering, and no one knowing about kessil's and what they can do? It seemed as though you were implying that you were using kessil's alone and we were foolish for T5's being a proven lighting solution to mix with LEDs. I see though that you posted while I was writing my long post. Maybe is misinterpreted something in your first post and if I did then I apologize.

I think we can all agree that lighting a reef tank is still a hot topic to be discussed.

OP, best of luck with your hybrid solution. I hope you continue to see great results.