Just updated my Apex-issue with heater afterwards

[Long Island Reefer]

Pretty new to Apex and the programming of it but I am having an issue each time I update it. This is the 3rd time i have updated the Apex since receiving it and each time that I do my heater is off when the update is complete. Usually I catch that its off pretty quickly but today for some reason I updated it from work and didn't notice it was off all morning. received an alert a few hours later that the temp in the tank was to low and noticed it was off. I have it set to ON right now instead of AUTO, It is a COBALT heater and it does a pretty good job maintaining itself.

The outlet on the Apex is set to:
Fallback On
Probe Name TMP
On Temp 77
Off Temp 81.5

After reading it all out as I was typing it seems by default the heater is off, will turn on at 77 and stay on until 81.5 at which point it will turn off until 77 again. I want it so that anywhere in the range of 77-81.5 it is on but if the temp raises above 81.5 it kills the outlet. It is the cobalt heater so I'm using the heater to control the heat and the Apex as a backup just incase the heater fails on it will kill the outlet.

 

[ckozma]

FALLBACK ON
SET ON
YOUR ADDITIONAL PROGRAMMING

 

[DaneGer21]

Here is my heater code…


Fallback OFF
If Temp-S > 77.7 Then OFF
If Temp-S < 77.8 Then ON
Defer 000:30 Then ON

Pretty rock solid

 

[Long Island Reefer]

On my configuration i dont see a place to put the SET ON
This means i would have to make the control type advanced instead of heater and program it myself correct?

 

[Long Island Reefer]

New question, is it better to have my Apex control the temperature and set the heater to a higher temperature and just have the apex turn it on and off as needed? Im worried about wear and tear on the relays of the apex constantly turning on and off/failing in the on position.

 

[DaneGer21]

I like to do my own programming

 

[Long Island Reefer]

I like to do my own programming

what heater do you have in the tank?

 

[SDLlama]

You really only want the heater to turn off above a certain point when the tank is too hot to provide a fail safe for the internal heater. Therefore you could use a Fallback ON, Set ON, IF Temp > 81.5 Then OFF, with a Defer time Then ON statement to prevent the outlet from turning on and off rapidly when the tank temp is hovering around 81.5.

However, I've found the following to work well for me considering I also have a chiller. The cobalt heater keeps the temp in a pretty tight range so my on and off temp ranges are also fairly tight. This tight range also helps prevent the tank from cooling too much before the heater turns on. FYI. my low temp alarm is set to 77.5, 1 degree cooler than my heater on temp.

Fallback ON
If Tmp < 78.5 Then ON
If Tmp > 79.0 Then OFF

 

[DaneGer21]

what heater do you have in the tank?

My main is a 300w, my other is a 150w

 

[SuncrestReef]

There are 3 different scenarios for the Apex controlling a heater:

1. Apex exclusively controls the heater:
If your heater does not have its own built-in thermostat, and you're not using any external heater controller (like Inkbird), then set the Control Type to "Heater":

In this configuration, the Apex will turn the heater On when the temperature is below the "On Temperature" value, and turn it Off when the temperature is above the "Off Temperature" value. If the heater is currently on and you reboot the Apex (like when installing AOS updates), the heater will not turn back on automatically until the temperature again drops below the "On Temperature" value.

2. Temperature controlled by heater thermostat or external controller, with Apex as a safeguard:
In this scenario, the built-in thermostat or Inkbird controller turns the heater on and off to maintain temperature. If for some reason the temperature gets too high, the Apex will turn off the output, killing power to the heater and controller. Set the thermostat to your desired range, then program the Apex to turn off a few degrees warmer than the thermostat's upper limit. Set the Control Type to "Advanced", and use this programming:

Fallback ON
Set ON
If Tmp > 80.0 Then OFF

3. Apex controls the temperature range, and the heater's thermostat or external controller acts as a safeguard:
In this scenario, the Apex will turn on and off the heater directly to maintain the range you set, but if for some reason the temperature gets too high, the thermostat or external controller will turn it off. Set the thermostat to wider range than your Apex. Set the Control Type to "Advanced", and use this programming:

Fallback ON
If Tmp > 78.0 Then OFF
If Tmp > 79.0 Then OFF

In both the scenarios with the external controller, the Apex is set to Fallback ON so the external controller can continue to operate the heater even if the Apex is offline, disconnected, or locked up.

See my series of Apex tutorial for more tips and example code:

Articles by SuncrestReef

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Long Island Reefer]

There are 3 different scenarios for the Apex controlling a heater:

1. Apex exclusively controls the heater:
If your heater does not have its own built-in thermostat, and you're not using any external heater controller (like Inkbird), then set the Control Type to "Heater":

In this configuration, the Apex will turn the heater On when the temperature is below the "On Temperature" value, and turn it Off when the temperature is above the "Off Temperature" value. If the heater is currently on and you reboot the Apex (like when installing AOS updates), the heater will not turn back on automatically until the temperature again drops below the "On Temperature" value.

2. Temperature controlled by heater thermostat or external controller, with Apex as a safeguard:
In this scenario, the built-in thermostat or Inkbird controller turns the heater on and off to maintain temperature. If for some reason the temperature gets too high, the Apex will turn off the output, killing power to the heater and controller. Set the thermostat to your desired range, then program the Apex to turn off a few degrees warmer than the thermostat's upper limit. Set the Control Type to "Advanced", and use this programming:

Fallback ON
Set ON
If Tmp > 80.0 Then OFF

3. Apex controls the temperature range, and the heater's thermostat or external controller acts as a safeguard:
In this scenario, the Apex will turn on and off the heater directly to maintain the range you set, but if for some reason the temperature gets too high, the thermostat or external controller will turn it off. Set the thermostat to wider range than your Apex. Set the Control Type to "Advanced", and use this programming:

Fallback ON
If Tmp > 78.0 Then OFF
If Tmp > 79.0 Then OFF

In both the scenarios with the external controller, the Apex is set to Fallback ON so the external controller can continue to operate the heater even if the Apex is offline, disconnected, or locked up.

See my series of Apex tutorial for more tips and example code:

Articles by SuncrestReef

www.reef2reef.com

Great reply! thanks for the info, in scenario 1 what is the strain on the apex relays? is it worth the risk of potentially having them break at some point?

 

[SuncrestReef]

Great reply! thanks for the info, in scenario 1 what is the strain on the apex relays? is it worth the risk of potentially having them break at some point?

The EB832 relays are rated for over 1 million cycles. Reviewing my output logs, I see that my heater turns on and off about 50 times per day on average. At this rate, that's 18,250 cycles per year, so it would take over 54 years to reach 1 million cycles. I've been running my heater and EB832 this way for over 3 years with no problem, and I don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[minus9]

Personally I would never set my heater to fallback on, you’re asking for a disaster in my book.
Best scenario, use a heater controller that’s plugged into an EB8 (832), set your desired range with the controller, then fail safe range in apex.
mine is really simple
Fallback OFF
If tmp < 76.5 Then On
If tmp > 78.0 Then Off

 

[Long Island Reefer]

Personally I would never set my heater to fallback on, you’re asking for a disaster in my book.
Best scenario, use a heater controller that’s plugged into an EB8 (832), set your desired range with the controller, then fail safe range in apex.
mine is really simple
Fallback OFF
If tmp < 76.5 Then On
If tmp > 78.0 Then Off

even if the heater is controlling the temperature on its own and the parameters are only there as a safety?

 

[minus9]

Yes! My finnex heaters have onboard controls, so that’s where I start, then the Ranco, then the apex. A tank can survive a lot longer in slightly cooler temperatures, but not high temperatures. Things go down hill fast if temps are elevated long enough. Nearly 40 years in the hobby taught me a few things along the way.

 

[Stain]

i let my heaters thermostat control the heater, if/when it fails, the apex will turn off the outlet if its stuck on.