Kalkwasser AND Two Part?

[arking_mark]

Does anyone run Kalkwasser and two part?

I've been running Randy's true two part for about a year.

I'm currently dosing about 200ml/day of Alk and Calc with about 180g total system volume (125g display, 40g frag, 55 sump, 20g refugium)

Things have been working out fine lately, so why not fix them!

I've just started dosing Kalkwasser since I had an extra dosing head and some lime around. Why not?

I probably lose about 2 gallons/day in evaporation or about 1%.

I'm thinking of slowly ramping up my dosing of kalkwasser to 1 gallon/day.

This would be significantly below my top-off needs so as not to mess up my top-off system too much.

And then slowly stepping back my two part dosing.

Any thoughts on this approach?

Not worth the extra complication of running too additive systems?

Best way to capture the advantages of each?

Thanks

Over the years I've done a lot of different dosing regimes.

As I've been moving to Ultra-Low Maintenance, I'm down to dosing 3 things:

1. Kalkwasser for balanced Alk/Ca and a nice pH boost
2. AFR for balanced everything for tank demand beyond what Kalkwasser can provide
3. DIY NoPox for carbon dosing to feed beneficial bacteria for my coral and keep nutrients in check.

If I wasn't dialing in my pH through Kalkwasser help, and getting more use out of AFR, I'd probably reduce this to just AFR.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Idk I add mag every day...

There's certainly no need to, but also not problem adding magnesium every day.

Real magnesium depletion is rarely more than 1 ppm a day or so, thus in a week you'd barely be able to detect the drop with a test kit.

 

[MichaelReefer]

There's certainly no need to, but also not problem adding magnesium every day.

Real magnesium depletion is rarely more than 1 ppm a day or so, thus in a week you'd barely be able to detect the drop with a test kit.

Yeah, mine drops very slowly, I dont do water changes and only add about once a month *shrug*

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

There's certainly no need to, but also not problem adding magnesium every day.

Real magnesium depletion is rarely more than 1 ppm a day or so, thus in a week you'd barely be able to detect the drop with a test kit.

I use your 2 part but with the "2 part maintenance " magnesium mix from brs.

Daily dose:
currently 41m.l of alk/calcium
Also 41m.l of balling part c
And 1.5 m.l of magnesium "maintenance "mix

The mag hasn't changed for months @ around 1275 give or take with salifert test.

I've been adding the mag daily for a few months but I haven't seen a change from when I use to dose all at once after alk and cal 1 gallons were used. But also it might be to soon to see the change.

Do you not recommend this with your 2 part recipe?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use your 2 part but with the "2 part maintenance " magnesium mix from brs.

Daily dose:
currently 41m.l of alk/calcium
Also 41m.l of balling part c
And 1.5 m.l of magnesium "maintenance "mix

The mag hasn't changed for months @ around 1275 give or take with salifert test.

I've been adding the mag daily for a few months but I haven't seen a change from when I use to dose all at once after alk and cal 1 gallons were used. But also it might be to soon to see the change.

Do you not recommend this with your 2 part recipe?

Yes, that's a fine plan and the fact that magnesium has not changed suggests it is working.

I was just indicating that if you dosed 10.5 mL once a week, it will likely look equally stable by testing.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Yes, that's a fine plan and the fact that magnesium has not changed suggests it is working.

I was just indicating that if you dosed 10.5 mL once a week, it will likely look equally stable by testing.

I get it .. and actually this was only my plan after I couldn't find a use for my 4th dosing head so I figured why not use it. I also figured it would give me less to do and keep track of and possibly forgetting to dose or overdosing.

Thanks for the help! Your awesome

I'm reading some of your work on kalk thats my next venture to add. I've never used it but to kill aptasia.

I wish I could find a picture of this kalk resivor you use and the delivery system

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I get it .. and actually this was only my plan after I couldn't find a use for my 4th dosing head so I figured why not use it. I also figured it would give me less to do and keep track of and possibly forgetting to dose or overdosing.

Thanks for the help! Your awesome

I'm reading some of your work on kalk thats my next venture to add. I've never used it but to kill aptasia.

I wish I could find a picture of this kalk resivor you use and the delivery system

Thanks.

No pictures of it, sorry. Just some Brute cans hooked together with bulkheads and a section of PVC(one is also OK, but doesn't last as long), plus a Reef Filler pump sending it to the tank (no longer made, I think).

 

[LiftinTheVeil]

I'm also looking to use kalk as an addition to 2-part. Mostly for the increase in pH. Any idea how much I should back off my 2-part doses with the addition of kalk?
I currently dose BRS 50ml alk and 80ml cal per day which keeps my 160g system around 9dKH (alk) and 450ppm (ca). Is there a theoretical reduction of 2-part in milliliters per gallon of kalk added? Or something to that effect.

I know I can figure it out by slowly easing into it and testing along the way, but it would be nice to have a starting point.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I'm also looking to use kalk as an addition to 2-part. Mostly for the increase in pH. Any idea how much I should back off my 2-part doses with the addition of kalk?
I currently dose BRS 50ml alk and 80ml cal per day which keeps my 160g system around 9dKH (alk) and 450ppm (ca). Is there a theoretical reduction of 2-part in milliliters per gallon of kalk added? Or something to that effect.

I know I can figure it out by slowly easing into it and testing along the way, but it would be nice to have a starting point.

How long have you been dosing an un equal amount of brs?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm also looking to use kalk as an addition to 2-part. Mostly for the increase in pH. Any idea how much I should back off my 2-part doses with the addition of kalk?
I currently dose BRS 50ml alk and 80ml cal per day which keeps my 160g system around 9dKH (alk) and 450ppm (ca). Is there a theoretical reduction of 2-part in milliliters per gallon of kalk added? Or something to that effect.

I know I can figure it out by slowly easing into it and testing along the way, but it would be nice to have a starting point.

My DIY two part (BRS uses this for their sodium carbonate recipe) at 50 mL of the alk part is equivalent to 2.3 liters of saturated limewater (kalkwasser) at 25 deg C (more dissolves at lower temps).

 

[Roli's Reef Ranch]

Does anyone run Kalkwasser and two part?

I've been running Randy's true two part for about a year.

I'm currently dosing about 200ml/day of Alk and Calc with about 180g total system volume (125g display, 40g frag, 55 sump, 20g refugium)

Things have been working out fine lately, so why not fix them!

I've just started dosing Kalkwasser since I had an extra dosing head and some lime around. Why not?

I probably lose about 2 gallons/day in evaporation or about 1%.

I'm thinking of slowly ramping up my dosing of kalkwasser to 1 gallon/day.

This would be significantly below my top-off needs so as not to mess up my top-off system too much.

And then slowly stepping back my two part dosing.

Any thoughts on this approach?

Not worth the extra complication of running too additive systems?

Best way to capture the advantages of each?

Thanks

This is almost exactly what I did on a 100 gallon SPS dom. system. I'm now dosing 1 gal, saturated kalk at night, and 15 ml All For Reef since I've been using it and don't have the precipitation/calcite issues I've had in the past... Had to kick soda trash. Results have been EXCELLENT to say the least and my avg ph is around 8.4. I mix it in a 20 gal brute, 6 gm kalk/gal, and use a versa to get it upstairs from the basement. Previously I used a kalkstirrer, but it DID NOT have the same effect for some reason.. Just do it and never look back.

 

[LiftinTheVeil]

My DIY two part (BRS uses this for their sodium carbonate recipe) at 50 mL of the alk part is equivalent to 2.3 liters of saturated limewater (kalkwasser) at 25 deg C (more dissolves at lower temps)

Thank you! I believe that will give me the starting point I need.

 

[LiftinTheVeil]

How long have you been dosing an un equal amount of brs?

Since I started using two part on this tank. About a year and a half. Do you not have a similar experience?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Since I started using two part on this tank. About a year and a half. Do you not have a similar experience?

I use brs calcium chloride and brs soda ash. Once cal/alk are where they belong it requires EQUAL parts alk and cal. I know it sounds strange but thats the way it works as long as magnesium is correct.

Depending on what your using.

I use to dose it as you described in unequal parts thats why I mentioned anything.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Since I started using two part on this tank. About a year and a half. Do you not have a similar experience?

Most people who dose unevenly either do so because water changes are messing with apparent demand ratios, or are using so little that minor things (like nitrate accumulation of declines) impact the apparent alk demand.

In general, I recommend equal dosing based on alk demand, and then only adjust calcium if it is already too high or too low. Calcium moves much more slowly because seawater has a much larger reservoir of calcium than alkalinity, and people sometimes think it isn't needing as much, then suddenly to make a correction they need a lot.

 

[LiftinTheVeil]

I use brs calcium chloride and brs soda ash. Once cal/alk are where they belong it requires EQUAL parts alk and cal. I know it sounds strange but thats the way it works as long as magnesium is correct.

Depending on what your using.

I use to dose it as you described in unequal parts thats why I mentioned anything.

Thanks for the insight. I also use brs calcium chloride and soda ash.
Now that you say it, I've looked back in my dosing records and noticed the gap between alk and cal are closing in. In fact, I just changed the dose to 50ml alk and 60ml cal, based on my last water test. If the Cal remains on the high side I'll start dosing equal parts based on alk and use a corrective dose for cal as needed.

Thanks for asking me about that, I would have never looked into it otherwise.

 

[LiftinTheVeil]

Most people who dose unevenly either do so because water changes are messing with apparent demand ratios, or are using so little that minor things (like nitrate accumulation of declines) impact the apparent alk demand.

In general, I recommend equal dosing based on alk demand, and then only adjust calcium if it is already too high or too low. Calcium moves much more slowly because seawater has a much larger reservoir of calcium than alkalinity, and people sometimes think it isn't needing as much, then suddenly to make a correction they need a lot.

Thank you very much for the info! I'm definitely going to start dosing equal parts based on alk and use a corrective dose of calcium as needed.

 

[markwayts]

Bumping this thread to determine what is the correct type of magnesium supplement for a kalkwasser & 2part dosing setup.

Thank you!

You could do it like me. I dose kalk on one dose pump and homade all for reef on the other. That lets me adjust my trace elements and magnesium on a mix by mix basis and only needs 2 pump heads and 2 containers.

 

[Shooter6]

I do in a way. I dose 5gal of kalk through an avast marine kalk stirrer, and almost 200ml of tropic marin all for reef per day as well. I also dose magnesium weekly manually. I need to put it on a doser to simplify that.

Now that I've described my dosing, here is something I'll point out. While I'm a huge fan of kalkwasser be aware that using it will require you to monitor magnesium and dose it in addition to your 2 part, since kalkwasser doesn't contain it, UNLESS you use the k+2 version from brightwell.

I've never used k+2 so I don't know how well it works keeping parameters stable, and I don't know how close to regular kalks potency it is. Hopefully others can chime in on this.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

UNLESS you use the k+2 version from brightwell.

I've never used k+2 so I don't know how well it works keeping parameters stable, and I don't know how close to regular kalks potency it is. Hopefully others can chime in on this.

NO, that's not a useful product.

Really disappointing they still market it. Folks should not be fooled by the misleading kalk+2 product by Brightwell.

here are my copied and pasted statements from older threads:

Magnesium is not soluble in limewater, so it will just sit on the bottom and worse, the amount present in kalk+2 is not nearly enough to meet the demand for magnesium, and far worse yet, is LESS than is present in many bulk brands of calcium hydroxide as an impurity.

Here's the Brightwell kalk+2 claim:

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/kalk2t.php

Guaranteed Analysis
Calcium (min) 54.20% (542,000 ppm), Strontium (min) 1.00% (10,000 ppm), Magnesium (min) 0.15% (1,500 ppm)

So that is a ratio of magnesium to calcium of 1:361.

I show in this article that bulk calcium oxide (dried calcium hydroxide) has more magnesium as an impurity (1:263) and that in the actual limewater, the magnesium ratio does not exceed 1:36,000, with the remainder ending up undissolved on the bottom.

Magnesium and Strontium in Limewater

Aquarium Chemistry: Magnesium And Strontium In Limewater

Because of a potential imbalance between the amount of magnesium and strontium used by corals, and the amount delivered by limewater, using limewater can potentially lead to depletion of both ions in aquaria.

reefs.com

I show in this article that a typical coral or coralline aglae incorporation rate is 0.1 to 4%by weight, for a ratio of about 1:400 to 1:10.

Aquarium Chemistry: Magnesium In Reef Aquaria

This article details the nature of magnesium in seawater, how it is added, measured, and removed from marine aquaria, and how it impacts the maintenance of calcium and alkalinity.

reefs.com