Kalkwasser AND Two Part?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In my case, I always just boosted the IO that I use for water changes with some extra magnesium and it always stayed fine without ever adding any to the tank.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Thanks for the insight. I also use brs calcium chloride and soda ash.
Now that you say it, I've looked back in my dosing records and noticed the gap between alk and cal are closing in. In fact, I just changed the dose to 50ml alk and 60ml cal, based on my last water test. If the Cal remains on the high side I'll start dosing equal parts based on alk and use a corrective dose for cal as needed.

Thanks for asking me about that, I would have never looked into it otherwise.

I'm really glad to hear you say that! Thanks, and thats basically what happened for me

 

[Shooter6]

NO, that's not a useful product.

Really disappointing they still market it. Folks should not be fooled by the misleading kalk+2 product by Brightwell.

here are my copied and pasted statements from older threads:

Magnesium is not soluble in limewater, so it will just sit on the bottom and worse, the amount present in kalk+2 is not nearly enough to meet the demand for magnesium, and far worse yet, is LESS than is present in many bulk brands of calcium hydroxide as an impurity.

Here's the Brightwell kalk+2 claim:

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/kalk2t.php

Guaranteed Analysis
Calcium (min) 54.20% (542,000 ppm), Strontium (min) 1.00% (10,000 ppm), Magnesium (min) 0.15% (1,500 ppm)

So that is a ratio of magnesium to calcium of 1:361.

I show in this article that bulk calcium oxide (dried calcium hydroxide) has more magnesium as an impurity (1:263) and that in the actual limewater, the magnesium ratio does not exceed 1:36,000, with the remainder ending up undissolved on the bottom.

Magnesium and Strontium in Limewater

Aquarium Chemistry: Magnesium And Strontium In Limewater

Because of a potential imbalance between the amount of magnesium and strontium used by corals, and the amount delivered by limewater, using limewater can potentially lead to depletion of both ions in aquaria.

reefs.com

I show in this article that a typical coral or coralline aglae incorporation rate is 0.1 to 4%by weight, for a ratio of about 1:400 to 1:10.

Aquarium Chemistry: Magnesium In Reef Aquaria

This article details the nature of magnesium in seawater, how it is added, measured, and removed from marine aquaria, and how it impacts the maintenance of calcium and alkalinity.

reefs.com

I wondered about its ability, and I figured it would cause some type of precipitation event. I guess in a way the magnesium precipitates right back out ( doesn't desolve in kalkwasser) therefore it's pointless. Sad a company with such a high reputation is marketing a product that doesn't do what it's claimed to be able to.

 

[mfollen]

This is almost exactly what I did on a 100 gallon SPS dom. system. I'm now dosing 1 gal, saturated kalk at night, and 15 ml All For Reef since I've been using it and don't have the precipitation/calcite issues I've had in the past... Had to kick soda trash. Results have been EXCELLENT to say the least and my avg ph is around 8.4. I mix it in a 20 gal brute, 6 gm kalk/gal, and use a versa to get it upstairs from the basement. Previously I used a kalkstirrer, but it DID NOT have the same effect for some reason.. Just do it and never look back.

What effects did the kalk stirrer not replicate as dosing the premixed kalk solution at night?

 

[Roli's Reef Ranch]

What effects did the kalk stirrer not replicate as dosing the premixed kalk solution at night?

I was using an IceCap 120, never achieved the same effect on ph. Not sure why. It may have to do with the fact that the crust is never allowed to form on top, like it does in the bucket due to stirring. Perhaps, CO2 was mixing and preventing full saturation. Also, I was dosing 24/7, w/the stirrer only stirring every 4 hours for 1 minute, instead of at night like I have been since going to the "bucket method."

 

[MartinM]

I use both

 

[Shooter6]

The avast does form the crust and is a continuous stirring fyi

 

[mfollen]

Ah yes, constant stirring will make a big difference.

 

[Snyder1456]

Does anyone run Kalkwasser and two part?

I've been running Randy's true two part for about a year.

I'm currently dosing about 200ml/day of Alk and Calc with about 180g total system volume (125g display, 40g frag, 55 sump, 20g refugium)

Things have been working out fine lately, so why not fix them!

I've just started dosing Kalkwasser since I had an extra dosing head and some lime around. Why not?

I probably lose about 2 gallons/day in evaporation or about 1%.

I'm thinking of slowly ramping up my dosing of kalkwasser to 1 gallon/day.

This would be significantly below my top-off needs so as not to mess up my top-off system too much.

And then slowly stepping back my two part dosing.

Any thoughts on this approach?

Not worth the extra complication of running too additive systems?

Best way to capture the advantages of each?

Thanks

So how has this worked out so far? I am about to try using a kalk stirrer to reduce the amount of ESV 2 part I'm dosing. Mainly to save $ but also for the ph benefit AND as you stated it's not broken so might as well fix it!
I have about 250 gallons total water volume, sps heavy and dose around 150mls of each currently. ESV is all I've ever used and I'm told it's around 1.5x more potent than brs' version of 2 part. But I don't know how to begin. I really want to try dosing kalk at night and 2 part during the day, but I don't have a trident or other alkalinity monitor and didn't really want to stay up all night testing for days.. Any advice based on your experience? TIA!

 

[dwest]

So how has this worked out so far? I am about to try using a kalk stirrer to reduce the amount of ESV 2 part I'm dosing. Mainly to save $ but also for the ph benefit AND as you stated it's not broken so might as well fix it!
I have about 250 gallons total water volume, sps heavy and dose around 150mls of each currently. ESV is all I've ever used and I'm told it's around 1.5x more potent than brs' version of 2 part. But I don't know how to begin. I really want to try dosing kalk at night and 2 part during the day, but I don't have a trident or other alkalinity monitor and didn't really want to stay up all night testing for days.. Any advice based on your experience? TIA!

I run kalk and 2 part. I would dose enough kalk to almost total your evaporation rate. My tank evaporates about 5-6 liters per day. So I dose 4L of kalk per day. My RODI ATO makes up the difference.

Then you need to dial back your 2 part. My 2 part is about 50 times as potent as kalk (I use BRS recipe with calcium chloride and soda ash) . So, my 4 liters of kalk per day eliminates the need for 80 ml of each 2 part per day.

You could do this all in one swoop or slowly ramp up kalk and ramp down 2 part. Either way, I would check alkalinity frequently during the changeover.

 

[Snyder1456]

I am going to be using an Avast Marine kalk stirrer and my Neptune Dos to feed the Rodi from my ATO container. I currently dose my 2 part around the clock. I guess I'm just concerned that if the first night I switch the two part to dose only during the day and start the kalk stirrer, I'll either get a dip or spike in alkalinity. I suppose I could keep dosing 2 part around the clock and start the kalk drip extremely low and like you said slowly change them both.

 

[Shooter6]

I run kalk and 2 part. I would dose enough kalk to almost total your evaporation rate. My tank evaporates about 5-6 liters per day. So I dose 4L of kalk per day. My RODI ATO makes up the difference.

Then you need to dial back your 2 part. My 2 part is about 50 times as potent as kalk (I use BRS recipe with calcium chloride and soda ash) . So, my 4 liters of kalk per day eliminates the need for 80 ml of each 2 part per day.

You could do this all in one swoop or slowly ramp up kalk and ramp down 2 part. Either way, I would check alkalinity frequently during the changeover.

Second this but want to add something over looked. Besides the kalkwasser and 2 parts like evs ect you will need to dose additional magnesium. Kalkwasser lacks magnesium, so the increased kalkwasser, and lowered 2 part will cause the magnesium dosing to be less then currently.

I myself dose kalkwasser slurry at 3 gal a day, 200ml of tropic marin all for reef,160ml of redsea alk, 160ml of cal, and 200ml of magnesium per day. The redsea 3 part is the powder mixed in rodi. I mix 16 level scoops of the alk powder to a gal of rodi. 20 level scoops of the calcium and magnesium to a gallon each in seperate containers and dosed 15 min apart.

 

[Snyder1456]

Second this but want to add something over looked. Besides the kalkwasser and 2 parts like evs ect you will need to dose additional magnesium. Kalkwasser lacks magnesium, so the increased kalkwasser, and lowered 2 part will cause the magnesium dosing to be less then currently.

I myself dose kalkwasser slurry at 3 gal a day, 200ml of tropic marin all for reef,160ml of redsea alk, 160ml of cal, and 200ml of magnesium per day. The redsea 3 part is the powder mixed in rodi. I mix 16 level scoops of the alk powder to a gal of rodi. 20 level scoops of the calcium and magnesium to a gallon each in seperate containers and dosed 15 min apart.

Good point, with ESV I never need to dose magnesium, nor potassium & strontium either as it is in there already. I may need to supplement these soon

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good point, with ESV I never need to dose magnesium, nor potassium & strontium either as it is in there already. I may need to supplement these soon

You might, or not. I never needed any potassium dosing only limewater/kalkwasser. There's no inherent reason that potassium should fall. Foods may bring in just as much as growing creatures take up.

I personally think strontium dosing is of no benefit, but Sr was low (5.5 ppm) in my tank when I never dosed any.

 

[Shooter6]

You might, or not. I never needed any potassium dosing only limewater/kalkwasser. There's no inherent reason that potassium should fall. Foods may bring in just as much as growing creatures take up.

I personally think strontium dosing is of no benefit, but Sr was low (5.5 ppm) in my tank when I never dosed any.

Trace elements may or may not need additional dosing like you said. I feel magnesium is much more likely to need additional dosing though only because of the increase of the other 2 parts vs magnesium dosing using the combination of kalkwasser along with the esv or all for reef type or even standard 3 part dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Trace elements may or may not need additional dosing like you said. I feel magnesium is much more likely to need additional dosing though only because of the increase of the other 2 parts vs magnesium dosing using the combination of kalkwasser along with the esv or all for reef type or even standard 3 part dosing.

yes. I added magnesium just by boosting my new salt water that I used for water changes.

 

[Shooter6]

yes. I added magnesium just by boosting my new salt water that I used for water changes.

I see. Is there a maximum boost you can do before triggering a precipitation event? I have a 1200gal system and I don't think water changes even boosting the magnesium would be an efficient means to maintain it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not think magnesium is likely to trigger precipitation. You also do not need to make it particularly high since daily magnesium demand is low.

If you are dosing limewater to add 10 ppm of calcium and 1.4 dKH of alk per day, magnesium demand should not exceed 1 ppm per day.

If you are changing 1% per day or 30% per month, then a magnesium level in the salt mix that is 100 ppm higher than the tank will be plenty.

 

[Shooter6]

I do not think magnesium is likely to trigger precipitation. You also do not need to make it particularly high since daily magnesium demand is low.

If you are dosing limewater to add 10 ppm of calcium and 1.4 dKH of alk per day, magnesium demand should not exceed 1 ppm per day.

If you are changing 1% per day or 30% per month, then a magnesium level in the salt mix that is 100 ppm higher than the tank will be plenty.

My experience is that magnesium consumption very by what's in the system. Larger aor a bigger collection of motntipora and chalice seem to use more magnesium then other systems. My current dosing of magnesium equals 1 pound (dry) every 2 months. My previous smaller system would burn that much monthly

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My experience is that magnesium consumption very by what's in the system. Larger aor a bigger collection of motntipora and chalice seem to use more magnesium then other systems. My current dosing of magnesium equals 1 pound (dry) every 2 months. My previous smaller system would burn that much monthly

Yes, it certainly does, but coralline is among the highest magnesium users and the ratio of calcium to magnesium in it is close to 10:1. Anything a lot higher is some other mechanism, like correcting for water changes.

I discuss these issues and show data here:

Aquarium Chemistry: Magnesium In Reef Aquaria

This article details the nature of magnesium in seawater, how it is added, measured, and removed from marine aquaria, and how it impacts the maintenance of calcium and alkalinity.

reefs.com

Interestingly, coralline algae that normally packs a large amount of magnesium into their calcium carbonate deposits (>4 mole percent magnesium carbonate, or >1% magnesium by weight) has been shown to incorporate less magnesium when the magnesium content of the water is reduced. The amount incorporated is directly proportional to the magnesium concentration. Consequently, the amount of magnesium that they consume in aquaria is dependent on the magnesium content of the water. This effect is also likely to extend to other calcifying organisms as well.