Keep Kessil or go Radion

[smiley28]

I see a lot of oh par and pur and par meters do this and that and you can’t measure pur
2 questions I have are how do par meters work exactly? And why hasn’t Kessil released more data on their light?
I like Kessil by the way I just find the info on their site vague.

 

[Velcro]

Did you understand the video?
Were you able to read and understand my post?
I try to post so everyone can understand, including the kids.
Grandis.

Aw, the condescending angle. How innovative!

 

[A. grandis]

Aw, the condescending angle. How innovative!

You like to attack people and that's not the way to discuss about lights.
Grandis.

 

[Newb73]

Well I wasn’t even directing that at you, but since you asked... Generally, if you are going to make an analogy, it’s best to do so using an example that the majority of the audience will understand. I hope you feel super smart though!

I was actually going to agree with you if you went with "inexact analogy"...lol.

Having said that, from my perspective I considering understanding basic cpu architecture to be a basic knowledge on the same level with being able to do simple math.....for anyone who's opinion id value anyway (for the most part).

FWIW I think T5 LED hybrid set ups are the gold standard right now.

 

[Velcro]

I was actually going to agree with you if you want with "inexact analogy"...lol.

Having said that, from my perspective I considering understanding basic cpu architecture to be a basic knowledge on the same level with being able to do simple math.....for anyone who's opinion id value anyway (for the most part).

FWIW I think T5 LED hybrid set ups are the gold standard right now.

You need to get out more. The general public has no idea what the heck any of that means.

 

[Velcro]

You like to attack people and that's not the way to discuss about lights.
Grandis.

Attack? No. You’re jus5 spreading misinformation about LEDs based off of your poor experience of proper implementation of black boxes. It’s super annoying.

 

[smiley28]

Also I should clarify I don’t mean just related to this thread as far as light measurement goes I’ve been trying to get to the bottom of this rabbit hole these last few days without taking a physics class

 

[HB AL]

The PAR meters are calibrate to be used with T5s.
So probably any PAR measurements of combo lights including T5s will read basically the good reading from the T5s!!
It's a matter of choosing to believe in an expert, like Mr. Tullio, or to CLOSE your eyes and ears, to the video and believe into whatever you want to believe in.

Also, if people actually called Kessil, and they said that, what else matters? They made their lights!

Unfortunately this video has been highly ignored and that shows how people are in that "express LED train", AKA hype!

Grandis.

They work for me, results speak for themselves.

 

[smiley28]

One more thing before I go browsing!

@Newb73 i think we have the same thoughts as far as par meters go and reading leds but I’ve found nothing to prove that so far

Also I’ve watched that macna video and found it didnt go into detail very much

 

[Newb73]

One more thing before I go browsing!

@Newb73 i think we have the same thoughts as far as par meters go and reading leds but I’ve found nothing to prove that so far

Also I’ve watched that macna video and found it didnt go into detail very much

One issue is definitely the fact that to get the highest PAR you have to put the tunable spectrum at 50%.

It doesn't over drive active diodes if others are turned down or off so once you switch to a bluer light on the dial you can crank it to 100% and still not get the rated power.

Since a lot of people do tune to the bluer colors I suspect that's part of the issue.

If you run Kessils alone, you almost HAVE to do 4 to 6 hours per day at a 50% spectral setting.

Doing so improves your PAR but looks a lot more white to the eye than a Radion on AB or a hydra imitating AN.

Kessils next light ought to include a way to get peak PAR within the visible blue range and possibly have the white setting be the one with the power compromise.

 

[BlennyKravitz]

What on earth makes you believe this? A typical PAR meter measures intensities from (roughtly) 400-700nm.



I've seen a number of people mention this over the years but I've never heard from Kessil. They may have mentioned that PAR wasnt the end all be all to measuring the suitability of light sources but never that PAR meters didn't work on their lights (as if they had some sort of voodoo happening within the array).

Smh... has nothing to do with the range of the sensor.

Firstly, because I’m a professional lighting designer. Second, for the same reason an octopus-style colorimeter that was designed to calibrate light temperature on a rear projection CRT won’t work on an LED backlit, LCD screen. it’s a focus issue.

What are your scientific reasons for not believing the current gamut of consumer PAR meters are not capable of measuring single point-multi array LEDs? The PAR meters used by BRS to test Kessil’s AP700 spread are also considerably more expensive than the cheap $300 consumer versions.

 

[roberthu526]

I run four Kessil 360s on my five foot tank and I want to say the coverage and intensity is very good. The shimmer is amazing but I think we all know that. I do have Radion G3 and G4s and they are way brighter but it is not needed. My coral would be long gone if I tune everything to 100%.

 

[billwill]

I have a 90g standard sps tank. Radiums with VHO grew amazing sps. I switched to ocean revive D120 for a couple years. Grew corals quite well, but I didn't like the color so much. Went to two Kessil A360W and loved the color. A little slower growth. Added 4 bulb T5 to the Kessils and loved it. Great growth and color. Loved the simplicity of setting color and intensity. Decided I wanted to get rid of canopy and now run two Radion XR30G4s. Been close to a year now. Run them about 70% in PHK14K setting. Different colors and different growth for my sps. Love the clean look and mounting of the lights. The Kessils definitely have something that PAR meter doesn't capture. When I set my XR30 to par levels I measured on my old kessil, it looked very low and corals didn't do well. Factors like CRI don't get talked about in aquarium trade, but it's a very important lighting term in the lighting industry

 

[nashvillian]

Blenny, it was my understanding that Kessils have a higher PUR/PAR ratio than Ecotechs, due to the fine spectrum tuning. Is that correct? Basically, what would amount to the efficiency of a light.

 

[smiley28]

These resources are 40 a piece for 2 day access..
http://www.kessil.com/photoredox/Resources.php

Never mind scroll down hit supplemental material and download

 

[madweazl]

Smh... has nothing to do with the range of the sensor.

Firstly, because I’m a professional lighting designer. Second, for the same reason an octopus-style colorimeter that was designed to calibrate light temperature on a rear projection CRT won’t work on an LED backlit, LCD screen. it’s a focus issue.

What are your scientific reasons for not believing the current gamut of consumer PAR meters are not capable of measuring single point-multi array LEDs? The PAR meters used by BRS to test Kessil’s AP700 spread are also considerably more expensive than the cheap $300 consumer versions.

I'm not sure what exactly you're addressing here? From your first paragraph, I get the impression you don't believe a PAR meter is capable of accurately measuring 400-700nm but your last paragraph gives the impression we're in agreement that they can? I don't understand your second paragraph at all.

 

[ODwyerPW]

The Kessil isn't missing purple, it lacks the peak intensity in the red spectrum which is what really makes things in the tank pop. Ecoxotics blue/magenta stunner strips were fantastic for bringing this out (I loved them).

Kessil with the color turned up at approx 19:55
Radion with the diffuser installed in the same location at approx 16:36

Members have mentioned a more visually appealing look to the AP700 and if I had to guess, it's likely capable of producing more light in the red spectrum.

Do you still have those Stunner strips? Specifically, I'm looking for the little clip on reflectors that were offered later for them (Model #5020). I need 3 of them.

 

[madweazl]

Do you still have those Stunner strips? Specifically, I'm looking for the little clip on reflectors that were offered later for them (Model #5020). I need 3 of them.

Only things I have left are a couple power supplies and some manual dimmers.

 

[Aardvark1134]

If you check BRS latest par meter test they showed that all par meters are pretty much garbage. Even their $2000 plus one was off by 35% due to a software bug for years and noone there or in the professional community noticed. They also showed that some under report blue purple by as much as 50% and some over report yellow by as much as 20%. They again showed some could only measure right directly under. Then once you factor in pur is not accurate from any of them....par meters are pretty much still garbage at this point...way better than your eye but when even some of the best are off by as much as 35% it's a pretty worthless tool for anything other than a general starting point. Maybe in the years to come there will be one under 5K that actually works well. BRS even admitted that the licor however you spell it, under reported in all their old videos by 35%

 

[HB AL]

If you check BRS latest par meter test they showed that they all pretty much were garbage. Even their $2000 plus one was off by 35% due to a software bug for years and noone there or in the professional community noticed. They also showed that some under report blue purple by as much as 50% and some over report yellow by as much as 20%. They again showed some could only measure right directly under. Then once you factor in pur is not accurate from any of them....par meters are pretty much still garbage at this point...way better than your eye but when even some of the best are off by as much as 35% it's a pretty worthless tool for anything other than a general starting point. Maybe in the years to come there will be one under 5K that actually works well. BRS even admitted that the licor however you spell it, under reported in all their old videos by 35%

I usually don’t

If you check BRS latest par meter test they showed that they all pretty much were garbage. Even their $2000 plus one was off by 35% due to a software bug for years and noone there or in the professional community noticed. They also showed that some under report blue purple by as much as 50% and some over report yellow by as much as 20%. They again showed some could only measure right directly under. Then once you factor in pur is not accurate from any of them....par meters are pretty much still garbage at this point...way better than your eye but when even some of the best are off by as much as 35% it's a pretty worthless tool for anything other than a general starting point. Maybe in the years to come there will be one under 5K that actually works well. BRS even admitted that the licor however you spell it, under reported in all their old videos by 35%

I usually dont respond to folks who call an item "pure garbage" unless I have 1st hand experience with the product. I have Kessils on my heavily stocked mixed reef tank and they grow everything, even the fish are healthier;). Here are some pics of corals that grew under Kessils from small frags from today taken with just a cell phone, definitely far from "pure garbage".