Lanthanum Chloride

[Jack Ravensbergen]

Nice! This is why I want to try LC. I think it will be much more accurate and stable once I find the sweet spot vs. GFO. After all, stability is king in the reefing world, right? ;)

Stability ;)

 

[JGT]

Stability ;)

Beauty!
I have noticed my corals showing much more color when I keep my PO4 just under .10. Once I go over I feel that they are not as vibrant.

 

[GARRIGA]

Couldn’t this be dosed with a flocculant such a coral snow making mechanical extraction more effective for those lacking a skimmer or 5 micron sock?

How does one remove the remnants identified by ICP? Unless those levels insignificant and don’t accumulate.

 

[edd59]

Couldn’t this be dosed either a flocculant such a coral snow making mechanical contraction lore effective for those lacking a skimmer or 5 minutes crown sock?

How does remove the remnants identified by ICP? Unless those levels insignificant and don’t accumulate.

+1 on how to remove remnants.

 

[SPR1968]

You don’t really need to over complicate using this, just go carefully with it.

I’ve used Agent Green for years, no doser, just adding it to a high flow area in the display and it disperses into a cloudy haze as the reaction occurs. No issues with fish.

If your making your own, use a dilute version.

 

[JGT]

So was thinking about how many of us dose LC in our tanks, into filter socks, into a skimmer, both, etc. Basically isolating it from the DT.
As a result, since the LC is interacting with a very small percentage of the overall water in the DT and is then removed via mechanical filtration, how is it so effective at removing PO4?

 

[Pistondog]

So was thinking about how many of us dose LC in our tanks, into filter socks, into a skimmer, both, etc. Basically isolating it from the DT.
As a result, since the LC is interacting with a very small percentage of the overall water in the DT and is then removed via mechanical filtration, how is it so effective at removing PO4?

The lc is reacting with most of the dt water, not a small percentage.
If you dose into a sock , over time, most tank water will go thru it.
Same with skimmer.
This is why it is necessary to drip/dose slowly. If you are not then some lc will escape into the dt, regardless of the intent.

 

[JGT]

So was thinking about how many of us dose LC in our tanks, into filter socks, into a skimmer, both, etc. Basically isolating it from the DT.
As a result, since the LC is interacting with a very small percentage of the overall water in the DT and is then removed via mechanical filtration, how is it so effective at removing PO4?

Maybe need our resident chemist to weigh in. #RandyHolmes

The lc is reacting with most of the dt water, not a small percentage.
If you dose into a sock , over time, most tank water will go thru it.
Same with skimmer.
This is why it is necessary to drip/dose slowly. If you are not then some lc will escape into the dt, regardless of the intent.

So you’re saying the PO4 gets bound to the LC and caught by the filter sock AND the unbound LC also gets caught by the filter sock and then over time will bind with more PO4 as the DT water moves through the sock. That seems logical.

 

[Pistondog]

Maybe need our resident chemist to weigh in.

So you’re saying the PO4 gets bound to the LC and caught by the filter sock AND the unbound LC also gets caught by the filter sock and then over time will bind with more PO4 as the DT water moves through the sock. That seems logical.

I dont know about the unbound lanthanum, i dont think it gets filtered by a sock. The binding is pretty quick so if there is po4 in the water, diluted drops of lc will get bound up with no lanthanum leaving the sock.
I drip into the overflow and catch in the sock to best insure all lanthanum gets bound in the sox.
It is important not to use lc unless the po4 is sufficiently high to help insure binding quickly before unbound lanthanum reaches the dt and livestock.

 

[GARRIGA]

So was thinking about how many of us dose LC in our tanks, into filter socks, into a skimmer, both, etc. Basically isolating it from the DT.
As a result, since the LC is interacting with a very small percentage of the overall water in the DT and is then removed via mechanical filtration, how is it so effective at removing PO4?

How I comprehend it. Amount dosed interacts immediately with water to pull po4 thereby reducing overall solution as the water equalizes. Solution through dilution affect.

Think of it as amount of grams in solution. If you remove 1% of grams in solution then by default you've reduced overall 1% of solution. No different than adding a gram of anything increases that overall in solution.

Indirectly affecting DT water since eventually all tank water will be at the same solution.

 

[JGT]

How I comprehend it. Amount dosed interacts immediately with water to pull po4 thereby reducing overall solution as the water equalizes. Solution through dilution affect.

Think of it as amount of grams in solution. If you remove 1% of grams in solution then by default you've reduced overall 1% of solution. No different than adding a gram of anything increases that overall in solution.

Indirectly affecting DT water since eventually all tank water will be at the same solution.

Perhaps. Again, just seems like a small amount of water that it interacts with vs the total volume of the DT to have such a major impact.

 

[GARRIGA]

Perhaps. Again, just seems like a small amount of water that it interacts with vs the total volume of the DT to have such a major impact.

You're thinking about the contact patch while ignoring the affect of any item in solution. For example, add more salt and salinity overall goes up. Yet you added the salt to a small section of water. Eventually, that in solution equalizes and entire tank has same values regardless where that drop of water obtained.

 

[JGT]

I get what you’re saying. It just seems like a small amount being impacted to have just a dramatic effect overall.
As an example, my total volume is around 250 gallons. My sump can hold around 50 gallons. The contact area is maybe 15 gallons. Removing the PO4 in that area and having an impact like it does just doesn’t seem in line. Maybe it’s just me. :)

 

[GARRIGA]

I get what you’re saying. It just seems like a small amount being impacted to have just a dramatic effect overall.
As an example, my total volume is around 250 gallons. My sump can hold around 50 gallons. The contact area is maybe 15 gallons. Removing the PO4 in that area and having an impact like it does just doesn’t seem in line. Maybe it’s just me. :)

If you added enough salt to that 15 gallon area to raise your tank from 34 ppt to 35 ppt then wouldn't that confirm the overall tank eventually comes to the desired solution? Lanthanum chloride just working in the opposite direction. You're removing from solution something from a small area that in time will equalize the entire tank. Extraction via binding.

 

[JGT]

So it looks like I will need to do some math here and dose LC throughout the day.
I’ve been doing a 1 time dose and gradually increasing the dose to find my sweet spot. While I notice the PO4 drops shortly after dosing, by the next day it is back to its original level. It seems like by doing the 1 dose it is not diluting the PO4 enough or making enough contact with the PO4 in the rest of the tank. So…
See if my math is right. 3ml dosed 12 times every 2 hours would be .25ml per dose. If I wanted to increase the dose amount so my doser can handle it (can dose a minimum of 1.0ml per dose) I would multiply by 10 which would give me 2.5ml. So would need to dilute my LC by a 10:1 ratio with RODI.

 

[Bruttall]

So it looks like I will need to do some math here and dose LC throughout the day.
I’ve been doing a 1 time dose and gradually increasing the dose to find my sweet spot. While I notice the PO4 drops shortly after dosing, by the next day it is back to its original level. It seems like by doing the 1 dose it is not diluting the PO4 enough or making enough contact with the PO4 in the rest of the tank. So…
See if my math is right. 3ml dosed 12 times every 2 hours would be .25ml per dose. If I wanted to increase the dose amount so my doser can handle it (can dose a minimum of 1.0ml per dose) I would multiply by 10 which would give me 2.5ml. So would need to dilute my LC by a 10:1 ratio with RODI.

the game changer for me was the Neptune Apex, it doses every 10 minutes. The more often you can add a Micro Dose of the LC, vs a few larges doses a day, makes a huge difference in the export of phos, at least that is my observations

 

[JGT]

the game changer for me was the Neptune Apex, it doses every 10 minutes. The more often you can add a Micro Dose of the LC, vs a few larges doses a day, makes a huge difference in the export of phos, at least that is my observations

Yes, that is my assumption as well. Just makes it a little more tedious to find the right dosing amount. I may even do 24 doses vs 12. Will see how it works out.

 

[JGT]

Figured I’d circle back to this thread to let you know my migration from GFO to LC was a huge success and let you know my findings.

I dose the equivalent of 4.3ml/day. I took the instructions for Phosban-L which was to dilute 100ml with 200 ml of RODI. I then multiplied by 10 and added more RODI which gave me 3K ml. This allowed me to dose 4.3ml every 2 hours over a 24 hour period.

I used the PO4 calculator as a starting point and went even lower than the half of the recommended dose it told me to start with. Started with 1.5 ml and worked my way up.

Also, dosing smaller increments over a 24 hour period had a much better affect on PO4 as compared to trying to dose it all at once.

I have 6 tangs and saw 0 negative effects to them or any of the other 30 fish in my tank. I dose into my overflow in the sump. From there it goes through 2 - 200micron filter socks, into my skimmer, through a bubble sponge and then into the return.

I am now able to control my PO4 very precisely with no ups and down seen with exhausted/adding new GFO. The cost vs. GFO is also another win.

 

[Bruttall]

Figured I’d circle back to this thread to let you know my migration from GFO to LC was a huge success and let you know my findings.

I dose the equivalent of 4.3ml/day. I took the instructions for Phosban-L which was to dilute 100ml with 200 ml of RODI. I then multiplied by 10 and added more RODI which gave me 3K ml. This allowed me to dose 4.3ml every 2 hours over a 24 hour period.

I used the PO4 calculator as a starting point and went even lower than the half of the recommended dose it told me to start with. Started with 1.5 ml and worked my way up.

Also, dosing smaller increments over a 24 hour period had a much better affect on PO4 as compared to trying to dose it all at once.

I have 6 tangs and saw 0 negative effects to them or any of the other 30 fish in my tank. I dose into my overflow in the sump. From there it goes through 2 - 200micron filter socks, into my skimmer, through a bubble sponge and then into the return.

I am now able to control my PO4 very precisely with no ups and down seen with exhausted/adding new GFO. The cost vs. GFO is also another win.

I use this exact product. Dilute 50ml of this into 1450ml RO/DI and add about .25ml a day Via Neptune.
In 1.5 years I have barely used any of this bottle, it will last longer than my Tank I bet. 7 tangs and 20+ other fish all happy,. healthy and doing what they do.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For folks wanting more control on potential impurities, one can buy lanthanum chloride itself instead of commercial liquids.

DIY Lanthanum Dosing

Someone asked for a DIY lanthanum dosing recipe. Be sure you understand that some folks have issues with fish (especially tangs) before embarking on lanthanum dosing. it is also preferable to catch as many of the solids that precipitate out as you can, so dosing before some sort of...

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