Large water Change

[fernalfer]

Ok my tank has been cycled for about 3 weeks now. Ammonia-0 Nitrites-0. But Nitrates are between 80-100ppm. I did a fishless cycle with about 120lbs of Marco Dry Rock and Live sand. Right now my tank is empty as i have my first fish in QT now. I have a mesh bag that i put some pellets and flake food in to help keep the bacteria happy instead of just letting the food float in tank and decay.

Now i was told to get Nitrates down to perform a large water change 80-100%. If i do this a large part of my rocks will be exposed to air. Isn't the beneficial Bacteria i've worked so hard to build up in my Rocks. And will they die from being exposed to the air for a period of time?

I just want to make sure by doing such a large water change isn't going to set me backwards in my cycle. Also not happy changing close to 120 gallons of water. That's a lot of salt and water to go thru.

Please help me. I'm i doing the right thing with such a big water change and how will my Beneficial Bacteria that has built up in my rocks be affected?

 

[Russ265]

depends how long they are exposed to the air. couple hours? not gonna do much.

you can also house the rocks in 5 gallon buckets with the old water while you perform that change.

 

[Reefmon]

The bacteria will be fine as long as the rocks are not exposed to air for a long period of time. When I do a water change, I have rocks and corals exposed to the air with no ill effect. Think about low tide in the ocean. A lot of time corals are exposed then too

 

[fernalfer]

The bacteria will be fine as long as the rocks are not exposed to air for a long period of time. When I do a water change, I have rocks and corals exposed to the air with no ill effect. Think about low tide in the ocean. A lot of time corals are exposed then too

The longest they would be exposed is 45 minutes maybe.

 

[Reefmon]

45 minutes is a long time. If it me, i would do a bunch of small water changes or take the rock out to put in a a bucket of old water while you put new water in the tank.

 

[fernalfer]

45 minutes is a long time. If it me, i would do a bunch of small water changes or take the rock out to put in a a bucket of old water while you put new water in the tank.

Well taking out 120lbs. of rock isn't happening because it took me forever to get the aquascape i like. I know i can do a bunch of small ones but people say is not as effective as 1 large one to lower Nitrates. I suppose it really wouldn't be 45 minutes because as its draining it is still wet and as i add the new water i could get all the rocks wet as well while filling back up. Maybe i'll have one of my kids just continue pouring water over the rocks so they don't dry out while doing the water change.



don't want to dismantle this for a water change.

 

[-Logzor]

Why would you do such a large water change? Why do any water change? Defeats the purpose of cycling your tank in my opinion. Relative to bacteria in the rock...they are quite resilient, air exposure won't hurt them. I ordered bacteria from Dr. Tim's once, it arrived to my door frozen solid. Dr. Tim's customer service said they would be fine once they thawed out at room temperature.

It sounds that your tank isn't finished cycling. Why not give it time and let the bacteria do the work? If the nitrates don't drop after another couple weeks, then maybe try export as a method to reduce nitrates.

If you still have high nitrates then you bacteria populations are not yet high enough to do the work for you...let them build up.

Have you gone through the diatom phase of your cycle? If that last picture is the most recent after three weeks, then it doesn't looks like your tank has even begun to cycle? Rocks should at some point be covered in brown diatoms and then clear up.

Do you have a protein skimmer running?

What are you phosphate level?

Love the aquascape by the way! Don't tear it down!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Now i was told to get Nitrates down to perform a large water change 80-100%

no. 10 to 20 % like a regular wc.
and FWIW all tanks initally cycle differently. you man not get diatoms, I never did, you many not get the real uglies either, I never did. Mine did go through phases as it matured yes with algae on the glass rocks etc.
And it still does and (importantly) always will.
keep checking the params and treat it like a tank.

the food float in tank and decay.

remember you want it to decay. may look ugly right now, but its nothing compared to whats about to happen. And the best way IMO to avoid it getting real uglies is having a strong cycle going.

If you still have high nitrates then you bacteria populations are not yet high enough to do the work for you...let them build up.

yup.

Imo your time and money would be better spent investing in different bacterial supplements. Diversity IMO is pretty important.
my .02

 

[fernalfer]

Why would you do such a large water change? Why do any water change? Defeats the purpose of cycling your tank in my opinion. Relative to bacteria in the rock...they are quite resilient, air exposure won't hurt them. I ordered bacteria from Dr. Tim's once, it arrived to my door frozen solid. Dr. Tim's customer service said they would be fine once they thawed out at room temperature.

It sounds that your tank isn't finished cycling. Why not give it time and let the bacteria do the work? If the nitrates don't drop after another couple weeks, then maybe try export as a method to reduce nitrates.

If you still have high nitrates then you bacteria populations are not yet high enough to do the work for you...let them build up.

Have you gone through the diatom phase of your cycle? If that last picture is the most recent after three weeks, then it doesn't looks like your tank has even begun to cycle? Rocks should at some point be covered in brown diatoms and then clear up.

Do you have a protein skimmer running?

What are you phosphate level?

Love the aquascape by the way! Don't tear it down!

I thought after my nitrates and ammonia were brought down to 0 after dosing pure ammonia at 3ppm in around 12 hrs. my tank was cycled. Nitrates i thought will always be present even in a cycled tank, just not high like mine are. From what almost everyone said here my tank is cycled. It's also my understanding that the beneficial Bacteria won't bring down my Nitrates and only thru water changes and or some other export method will they come down. So waiting longer and doing nothing i think won't help get these Nitrates down at all.

Yes i have been running my protein skimmer for about 5 days now but does not produce much because there is nothing in my tank.

Phosphate level in 0.006 per Hanna Checker. (I kept my Marco Rocks in Brute Tubs in RODI saltwater with heater and powerhead for 3 months using Phosfree to get rid of the phosphates my rocks were leaching)

Not an ounce of algae yet, assuming my low phosphate levels are helping there.

Again it has been 2 straight weeks that no matter whether putting in flake food or dosing with pure ammonia. Ammonia and nitrite levels rise but go to 0 rather quickly. I used Fritz Bacteria in a bottle when i started my cycle a month ago and went thru the Ammonia and Nitrite spikes in the first 10 days. Here it is a month later, no algae and high Nitrates.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yes your on the right track for sure. Po is only one thing algae grows from. yes your tank is cycling, but only to a limited degree. if im not mistaken the appearance of algae would actually be a good thing as it will actually help lower your nitrates as you scrape and trim sending it to the skimmer.
Two articles from the master.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/chemistry
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/#3

 

[fernalfer]

Yes your on the right track for sure. Po is only one thing algae grows from. yes your tank is cycling, but only to a limited degree. if im not mistaken the appearance of algae would actually be a good thing as it will actually help lower your nitrates as you scrape and trim sending it to the skimmer.
Two articles from the master.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/chemistry
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/#3

Thanks i will sit down and read these articles in a bit. So do you suggest i just wait it out and let my bacteria continue to grow? And also if my tank is empty do i continue to ghost feed pellets and or flakes to keep these bacteria going?

 

[-Logzor]

Dumb question but do you currently have a light over your aquarium? If so what's the duration, bulbs, etc? You would think some algae would start growing by now.

 

[fernalfer]

Dumb question but do you currently have a light over your aquarium? If so what's the duration, bulbs, etc? You would think some algae would start growing by now.

Yes i have had my lights on for the last 10 days. First 3 weeks of cycle had lights off. I have the Reefbreeders Photon V2: https://www.reefbreeders.com/shop/photon-48-v2/

I have them on for 10-12 hrs a day. first 2 hours blues at like 10% then turn on white about 20% for 8 hrs. and back to blues for last 2 hrs.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

I thought after my nitrates and ammonia were brought down to 0 after dosing pure ammonia at 3ppm in around 12 hrs. my tank was cycled. Nitrates i thought will always be present even in a cycled tank, just not high like mine are. From what almost everyone said here my tank is cycled. It's also my understanding that the beneficial Bacteria won't bring down my Nitrates and only thru water changes and or some other export method will they come down. So waiting longer and doing nothing i think won't help get these Nitrates down...

The ammonia dosing is how I have always checked for a cycled tank. I've heard down to zero in 24hrs is okay. It shows that the bacteria are converting it to nitrites and then to nitrates. I can't imagine adding a fish would be an issue.

I have never heard that bacteria "removes" nitrates. Water changes or algae does.

 

[stunreefer]

I would move forward with large water change. Bacteria will be fine for the duration you're facing. This is by far the fastest way to bring your nitrate levels down, and likely the easiest means for you.

I have never heard that bacteria "removes" nitrates. Water changes or algae does.

Anaerobic bacteria will consume nitrate. This bacteria grows in oxygen depleted zones: DSB, deep inside LR, certain ceramic media, sulfur reactors, etc.

 

[fernalfer]

How about Vodka dosing for my high Nitrate levels. Would that be ok in a new tank? There is nothing in it as far as fish, inverts, and corals. And the main purpose would be to knock down the high nitrates.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Dumb question but do you currently have a light over your aquarium? If so what's the duration, bulbs, etc? You would think some algae would start growing by now.

Right? but its an led and he stripped the Po hard from the rocks and has only lightly ghost fed.

I can't imagine adding a fish would be an issue.

yup esp if the rock was in salt for a few months curing, not stable enough for coral yet prob.

Anaerobic bacteria will consume nitrate. This bacteria grows in oxygen depleted zones: DSB, deep inside LR, certain ceramic media, sulfur reactors, etc.

yup. the rock is fairly new(mos) and was totally dead so its going to take time for colonies deep to establish. sp right now there not much to process it, IMO

So do you suggest i just wait it out and let my bacteria continue to grow?

If it were me, Id do an easy water change. wats easy for you? 3 or four five gal buckets? 1 35 gal brute.?
Imo folks worry a whole lot about perfect zero parameters so often when the experts (DR's PHD's etc) actually say you need some, or start dosing tree stump remover. Esp when that parameter has little or nothing to do with the health and safety of an animal.

If it were me Id do the healthy lazy WC above, but Id also add Fiji mud ($14) and Id spend $10 on some chato. to see what happens.(over the next 1 then 2 weeks) both are bacterial sources BTW. and Im pretty sure The fiji mud is why I got so many crazy deep colors of corraline.

FWIW 22 min ago
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/very-high-nitrates.250077/

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

How about Vodka dosing for my high Nitrate levels. Would that be ok in a new tank? There is nothing in it as far as fish, inverts, and corals. And the main purpose would be to knock down the high nitrates.

vitamin c and or aminos would be good too.

mostly patience.

 

[fernalfer]

Well i guess i'll continue with patience and water changes. I've done 2 50% water changes with really no effect on bringing nitrates down. I'll read a little more on this Vodka dosing and see if that may help with my nitrates. As i wait patiently for some sign of algae.

 

[brandon429]

Curious about the actual reading, to know if it's accurate...how have you verified your nitrate reading am curious

Some of the entry level test kits show high numbers at times, tank seems low bioload, curious as to reading accuracy sometimes no action is required.