LEDs are NOT a cost effective way to light a reef... (at least not for me)

[iemsparticus]

No 2x/year. They just didn’t look good and coral growth also wasn’t sustained. Maybe I did change them out too often but still I had to change them out and it was a cost I was tired of paying. Love my LEDs!! Bulb change gone!

LEDs do not continue to work indefinitely...

There are plenty of good arguments to be made for the efficiency of LEDs over things like MH and T5s, but the cost incurred over time when replacing bulbs at BEST twice as often as is necessary is not one of them.

 

[Nburg's Reef]

I set up a calculation table when I was considering upgrading to a new 5' tank.

Considering cost of Kwh in Ohio, Bulb replacement, and cost of new fixtures, Running a x2 250w MH Hamilton fixture with 4 t5s was $1000 upfront, ~200 a year in bulb replacement, and around 180 in power consumption(MH 5 hours a day, t5 for 8 hrs). after 5 years, $2,524 operation cost.

For good LED coverage, I was going to go x3 Radion Pros: Upfront is $2,250, $0 in bulb replacement and $127 in power (considering 150w per unit to reache BRS's PAR readings, max is 195w, 7 hours on time) 5 year cost $2,759. so for me... it would take 6 years to break even.

@ 2 radion fixtures, it would be $1,829, becoming more cost effective at 3 years, but that would not solve the shadowing issue on a 5 foot tank. ATI sunpower T5 is actually the cheapest to run at 5 years.

This is considering high end LEDs only.
EDIT: looking over my chart again, it would take 4.5 years of MH operation to meet the upfront cost of x3 radions, not considering radion power consumption.

 

[Nburg's Reef]

Here is a screen of my chart. Please feel free to let me know if there are errors or you disagree with anything.
Just thought I would share. I personally really like the look of MHs and have tried LEDs of all brands. I liked the look of Kessil, but didn't have the best results with acros. LEDs are just to visually dim for my taste. I love the brightness of MHs, even though them and t5s don't give the pop of royal blue diodes. Tried G4 radions and didn't like how dim they looked compared to MHs. and the shimmer was too frantic on my high flow tank.

EDIT: my energy cost is $0.11 per kWH which is pretty good.
I didn't factor chiller either, because I have never needed a chiller.

 

[mcarroll]

Don't MH and T5 bulbs last a year?

Good question....the conjecture on this is so old that I can't believe it still flies!



They last 6 months.
They last 9 months.
They last 12 months.

IT DEPENDS HOW YOU USE THEM!!! C'MON!

The manufacturer rates them in HOURS anyway....and they're rated for 4,000 hours.

4000/(12 a day * 365 days per year)= 4,380 hours.​

That's for 250w Radiums, on paper. But official numbers!

So without context, they last a year if you keep em on about 12 hours a day.

In (my?) reality
I used 150w Radiums, which are marginally different from 250w's being discussed. (SE vs DE mostly)

I used high-power HQI magnetic ballasts that ran the bulbs at closer to 175 watts than 150. Much like 250w's being run at 270w.

I ran them for 13 hours a day.

IN MY SYSTEM....they would last 6 months before they started causing my M. cap's to literally start having bubbling skin (embolism?).

It would clear up once bulbs were changed.

It was not some other effect. It was predictable like clockwork.

Guess what. When I cut my lights from 13 hours to 6 hours, bulbs lasted twice as long – 12 months!

Half the usage time = double the calendar time. It's just math.

If someone else has different results with their halide or T5 bulbs, IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING ABOUT MY RESULTS.

Ask for their details and see why their results were different.

Details always matter.

 

[rtparty]

Good question....the conjecture on this is so old that I can't believe it still flies!



They last 6 months.
They last 9 months.
They last 12 months.

IT DEPENDS HOW YOU USE THEM!!! C'MON!

The manufacturer rates them in HOURS anyway....and they're rated for 4,000 hours.

4000/(12 a day * 365 days per year)= 4,380 hours.​

That's for 250w Radiums, on paper. But official numbers!

So without context, they last a year if you keep em on about 12 hours a day.

In (my?) reality
I used 150w Radiums, which are marginally different from 250w's being discussed. (SE vs DE mostly)

I used high-power HQI magnetic ballasts that ran the bulbs at closer to 175 watts than 150. Much like 250w's being run at 270w.

I ran them for 13 hours a day.

IN MY SYSTEM....they would last 6 months before they started causing my M. cap's to literally start having bubbling skin (embolism?).

It would clear up once bulbs were changed.

It was not some other effect. It was predictable like clockwork.

Guess what. When I cut my lights from 13 hours to 6 hours, bulbs lasted twice as long – 12 months!

Half the usage time = double the calendar time. It's just math.

If someone else has different results with their halide or T5 bulbs, IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING ABOUT MY RESULTS.

Ask for their details and see why their results were different.

Details always matter.

So I can go 2.2 years according to that math since my Radium runs 5 hours a day. My Radium will out last the time it takes for most people to switch out their LEDs for the latest and greatest. It will almost out last the time that the average reefer stays in the hobby (3 years).

 

[jda]

I used to get crushed for making fun of people who changed their panels more often that I changed by bulbs... so I kinda quit... but it was fun.

I am 10-hour-a-day guy and I change my 250W Radiums on M80 every year, 250W Phoenix on M8 every other year. Coral never even knows when I do. I would change overdriven 400w Radiums on PFO HQI about every 9 months - they seemed to need it.

 

[mcarroll]

So I can go 2.2 years according to that math since my Radium runs 5 hours a day. My Radium will out last the time it takes for most people to switch out their LEDs for the latest and greatest. It will almost out last the time that the average reefer stays in the hobby (3 years).

Are you using the context-less math or the real-life example math?

 

[FlyinBryan]

Yes the bulbs may last over a year, but their power diminishes over time. So when you put new ones, from my thinking, over over a year, it’s really powerful on those corals. Isn’t the old saw that corals like stability? I’m trying to maintain that which is why I was changing them out bi-annually. That diminishing power over time.

 

[Tristren]

Yes the bulbs may last over a year, but their power diminishes over time. So when you put new ones, from my thinking, over over a year, it’s really powerful on those corals. Isn’t the old saw that corals like stability? I’m trying to maintain that which is why I was changing them out bi-annually. That diminishing power over time.

I've only ever used LEDs, but you have multiple bulbs in MH and T5 setups right? Could you stagger the changes to minimize that impact?

Meaning if you have two MH bulbs, replace them when they are a year old, but offset them so you are changing one every six months?

 

[DSC reef]

I've never had an issue changing both bulbs at once. IMO changing the bulbs out prematurely is wasteful but that's my opinion. With 4 T5 bulbs I changed 2 out then the other 2 the next week. Only after a year ofcourse. Stability in chemistry I can understand but trying to keep stability in lighting by changing bulbs prematurely doesn't make sense but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[iemsparticus]

I've never had an issue changing both bulbs at once. IMO changing the bulbs out prematurely is wasteful but that's my opinion. With 4 T5 bulbs I changed 2 out then the other 2 the next week. Only after a year ofcourse. Stability in chemistry I can understand but trying to keep stability in lighting by changing bulbs prematurely doesn't make sense but maybe I'm wrong.

+1

Corals experience extreme light fluctuations in nature... it’s hard for me to believe it would be harmful for them to experience the change in bulbs. *shrug*

 

[Adam G]

I figured since I have read every single post on this thread I might as will chime in and tell you guys my thoughts and experience. I started with 4 AI SOL Blues over a 150 gallon tank. Tank was great, color of SPS was excellent, and growth was excellent as well. After three years I upgraded the SOL blues to hydra 52‘s. I did not have to buy new fixtures I just got the upgrade kits from AI and upgraded the ones I had. I have now been running the 52’s for almost 3 years. So I’ve gotten six years out of the fixtures but had to reinvest in the upgrades half way through.

I recently bought the Neptune PAR meter and have been having fun putting it in different locations of my tank for a few days at a time and testing par levels. I have since had to turn the four hydra 52s up to 45% intensity in order to get 120 par on the bottom and 350 par at my main rock ledge. As you can imagine with four of them over a 5 foot tank the spread is awesome, consistent, and has no trouble loading up my mature SPS colonies.

Prior to LED’s I was running a Hamilton fixture that had three 175 Watt Metal halide‘s and two six-foot VHO bulbs. I had great luck with that fixture as well however I did have heat issues in the summer. With LEDs my tank runs nice and cool with no need for chiller.

I have not had to replace a single bulb in six years and for me that is a great value. All four fixtures together are pulling less than 240 Watts at peak intensity So electricity costs are very low to run them.

Not sure if LEDs are cheaper than a metal halide solution for everyone but for me not having to run a chiller, replace bulbs, or needing 500+ watts to light my tank I can say that it is definitely a cheaper solution for me. All in costs for the four fixtures was $2400. I then spent another 1200 upgrading them if I remember correctly but I’m not sure what that was upgrade kits cost. So I have $3800 into the fixtures but have gotten six years out of them and hope to run them another six.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Well at the time I was a noob and was just going off what I could gather. I did this 4 years. And they were a pain in the neck to change out as well. I’ve been very happy with LEDs and I just got my electric bill and was happy I did not have metal halide‘s!

 

[DSC reef]

What was your difference in your electric bill? Generally curious.

 

[FlyinBryan]

I think it went down about $30-$50. It’s been a couple years since I made the change.

 

[Ztrain]

I used to be worried about electricity. I cured myself of that by buying an electric car. Now I look at things as 3-5 miles per kw/hr.

7 hours X 1 175 watt MH = 1,225 kw.
Car charges at 1,300 kw per hour.

Light tank for a day = cost of getting to lunch and back. Reasonable expenses.