LEDs. Forever controversial?

[DaveMorris]

I think you are missing one important factor here. Addressing the way corals grow or don't grow is one thing. How about the guys like me who just don't like the way a tank looks under LED light? For me, I do want good growth, however the look of the tank in my living room is at least as important as how good things grow. LED lighting in every instance, to me looks too sterile. LEDs do not capture the look of a tank lit well with halides. And no I am not just talking about shimmer. Plenty of LED solutions out there create a nice shimmer effect. LEDs just miss a lot of the intermediate frequencies between the frequency that the diode is designed for. A lot more peaks and valleys in analyzing LED lighting over halides. Again, I wouldn't argue about growth differences, for me it is purely aesthetics looking into my tank. Halides look better. Period.

 

[twilliard]

I have about 65k lux at 90% with my orphek fixture

 

[mfinn]

What is it going to take for people to accept LEDs?

As what? The only light source we should be using?
Or the only choice you like?

 

[Vaughn17]

Want a case study on LED's versus the other guys? Can't get anymore in depth then what EcoTech Marine has done with their Coral Lab, a case study in exceptional reef keeping using LED's.
http://ecotechmarine.com/news/ecotech-marine-launches-coral-lab

I'm sure it's completely unbiased.

 

[hart24601]

It doesn't help that most people think lights are the end all to growth. Feeding (appropriate sized food) can play a much larger role in growth if the light meets minimum levels.


I think with past light technology changes there were as many people that were skeptical, just more folks use the Internet and forums these days. Heck, it's fun to read archived posts about how blue light is useless and 20k would kill corals!

Heck I won the acro growout here on reef2reef using LEDs. No one even asked how... I fed acro appropriate food - and a whole lot of it!!!

 

[brotherd]

I have about 65k lux at 90% with my orphek fixture

That is the info that I'm looking for. I downloaded a lux meter app for my phone. My v1 units are at 67000 ish at 100%. The v2b is 10000 less. I'd like to see some #'s from t5 and halide users.

 

[cb684]

That is the info that I'm looking for. I downloaded a lux meter app for my phone. My v1 units are at 67000 ish at 100%. The v2b is 10000 less. I'd like to see some #'s from t5 and halide users.

How do you mean? Do you want to see what is the most intense light? Why does that matter? Or maybe I understood wrong and you are looking for a fixture for a deep tank (that can be challenging)...(Edit: I've heard good things about Orpheks, if they were not so expensive I would already have tested them.)

As I understand lux is a measurement of the luminance (light intensity) and is corrected to the wavelengths that the human eyes are more sensitive. PAR meters are known to be more sensitive to reds than blues and that is ok for plants but sucks for corals. So in theory one might have high PAR and lux and have a inadequate light source for coral health.

I think the discussion got a little out of the topic. I posted a picture of a seriatopora with strange growth patter under LEDs (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/leds-forever-controversial.240437/#post-2813757). It had a straight growth when it was under T5s. Same water parameters. That is controversial to me since I cannot understand what is going on. Has anybody seen anything like that?

 

[TheEngineer]

Good conversation so far. Let's keep it going.

 

[brotherd]

Not the most intense light,just interested as to how my lights compare to other technologies.I took a reading outside and sunlight this time of year is about 95000. Just interested is all.And yes, off topic. I have not seen seriatopora grow like that. That is strange indeed.

 

[JakeK]

The study posted has some results that are quite compelling. It was a qualitative study and so all the results are technically subjective but nonetheless do provide insights as to why LEDs are becoming so popular other than cost. Also, as a professional researcher there is nothing wrong with a company testing its own products and publishing the results. The company I work for does this regularly for claims support. The entire Consumer Goods industry does this. Granted, if the results wouldn't help the company, no need for them to publish unless required.

I think LEDs will be the dominant light in the market if they aren't already even if they are not technically superior. Film is by far the superior format for pictures but convenience of digital won out over product superiority of film years ago and the industry isn't looking back. I'm running an ATI sunpower now but will run LEDs on my next tank.

 

[NanaReefer]

Good conversation? [emoji57]

 

[moreef]

That is the info that I'm looking for. I downloaded a lux meter app for my phone. My v1 units are at 67000 ish at 100%. The v2b is 10000 less. I'd like to see some #'s from t5 and halide users.

I have ATI 4x54W T5 and I just turned down both channels to around 70% because any higher would be over 130K Lux. I used the free app from Galactica. Can that be right?

 

[moreef]

actually I turned them to 60% i was at around 160K near 70%. I read you want to be 100-120K is that correct? Thanks

 

[TaylorPilot]

I think that LED can grow stuff, but I prefer the look of MH-T5 lighting. The closest thing I can see would be Kessil and T5. Not a real big fan of the lighting that has individual diodes. I don't like how they look in the tank. If I am going to spend all this time and money, I can handle the little added cost of replacing the bulbs. JMHO

The funny part is, I think in the future, the LED will be the value lighting, with MH being the higher cost lighting system.

 

[hart24601]

It's a good point above - go with what you like! Nice tanks have all sorts of lighting, if you like something then say with it - it's not the end of the world or the hobby! I think lights get pointed at when there are typically other issues the tanks are having. I have not found that LEDs need much fussing with. I just plug them in and let em go - if something isn't doing wel I have found it is generally for another reason. I do check PAR for the most part at least once though.

I personally hate changing bulbs. Yep, it's stupid. But I hate it. It's like buying tires... I put it off for as long as possible and dislike spending the money on it. Doesn't make sense - but that is just me!

I have been waiting for LEDs to have actual reflectors. There are some car headlights (led) that use them. No just optics, but true reflectors. Not as efficient, but sure would help shadowing and blending.

 

[TaylorPilot]

It's a good point above - go with what you like! Nice tanks have all sorts of lighting, if you like something then say with it - it's not the end of the world or the hobby! I think lights get pointed at when there are typically other issues the tanks are having. I have not found that LEDs need much fussing with. I just plug them in and let em go - if something isn't doing wel I have found it is generally for another reason. I do check PAR for the most part at least once though.

I personally hate changing bulbs. Yep, it's stupid. But I hate it. It's like buying tires... I put it off for as long as possible and dislike spending the money on it. Doesn't make sense - but that is just me!

I have been waiting for LEDs to have actual reflectors. There are some car headlights (led) that use them. No just optics, but true reflectors. Not as efficient, but sure would help shadowing and blending.

I had actually drawn up some CAD files and was thinking about making me one like that. Where the LED shines up into a reflector so the spread would be more inline with a MH. Biggest problem would be transferring heat out of the array. I would probably have had to use heat pipes.

 

[TheEngineer]

Personal preference is a different issue from what I was originally referring to. If you prefer the look of one lighting option over another, that's very different than claims which indicate LEDs are incapable of growing coral. What always strikes me as odd are arguments about needing to tune the colors of LEDs to get the right growth and then in the same breath saying how they can just keep buying the same combination of T5 bulbs for the color they want. How is selecting T5 bulbs any different than dialing in the color on your LED? How is selecting an LED fixture with the color you want any different than selecting bulbs from the manufacturer you like?

 

[LostInTheDark]

Personal preference is a different issue from what I was originally referring to. If you prefer the look of one lighting option over another, that's very different than claims which indicate LEDs are incapable of growing coral. What always strikes me as odd are arguments about needing to tune the colors of LEDs to get the right growth and then in the same breath saying how they can just keep buying the same combination of T5 bulbs for the color they want. How is selecting T5 bulbs any different than dialing in the color on your LED? How is selecting an LED fixture with the color you want any different than selecting bulbs from the manufacturer you like?

From my understanding its that all the ATI bulbs will grow coral as they all contain the proper spectrum to support it but highlight certain colors for aesthetics. With LEDs the spectrum is very narrow to each chip and they will not all support growth.

 

[NanaReefer]

From my understanding its that all the ATI bulbs will grow coral as they all contain the proper spectrum to support it but highlight certain colors for aesthetics. With LEDs the spectrum is very narrow to each chip and they will not all support growth.

More like T5's are just easier to use. So many are simply intimidated by LED's. [emoji6]

 

[twilliard]

More like T5's are just easier to use. So many are simply intimidated by LED's. [emoji6]

This is a true fact.
People try LEDS only to get frustrated and give up.
I see it every day here. IMO.. a lack of knowledge in LED use, characteristics and understanding the technology