Legit Question about the Hobby

[George03]

Does anyone ever test the delivery water when the corals arrive? I never even thought about that till today.

Why don't the livestock vendors place a label with all of the vital parameters when the corals are shipped?

The thing is 1, that would help especially new owners, calibrate and compare home measurements if they wanted,
2, have a reference point of where things think they are, 3, avoid having home users, replicate and expense the 100's of sample doses used, when one is already supplied.

We get them, plop them in and suppose one thing drifts, then the issue becomes all about the hobbyist.

It seems to me that about 90 percent of all issues are responded with what are the parameters.
When we get our new pets we don't even have a clue as to that information.

They should be 'certified' with PAR, depth of habitat, and a full on list of the elements.

Why is that so hard?
I mean even a weekly sample report for a professional grower shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I only test salinity and temp, and do not think anything else matters for acclimation.

 

[Uncle99]

Every time, it’s a must for salinity and temp.

Prevents dumping a 1.020 new arrival into 1.025, that would be a problem.

Fish acclimatize well in equal or lower salinity but not the opposite, here, we gotta bring them up real real slowly.

 

[George03]

using the logic of changing parameters over a period of some time, what I infer is a very long, very gradual, migration out of the delivered sea water and into the local water, through a quarantine/migration period.

 

[Bob Weigant]

I don’t do it for corals but definitely do it for fish.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

using the logic of changing parameters over a period of some time, what I infer is a very long, very gradual, migration out of the delivered sea water and into the local water, through a quarantine/migration period.

Is there any evidence that the usual times for salinity and temp only (say, 30-60 min) is inadequate? I’ve never seen any.

 

[i cant think]

Does anyone ever test the delivery water when the corals arrive? I never even thought about that till today.

Why don't the livestock vendors place a label with all of the vital parameters when the corals are shipped?

The thing is 1, that would help especially new owners, calibrate and compare home measurements if they wanted,
2, have a reference point of where things think they are, 3, avoid having home users, replicate and expense the 100's of sample doses used, when one is already supplied.

We get them, plop them in and suppose one thing drifts, then the issue becomes all about the hobbyist.

It seems to me that about 90 percent of all issues are responded with what are the parameters.
When we get our new pets we don't even have a clue as to that information.

They should be 'certified' with PAR, depth of habitat, and a full on list of the elements.

Why is that so hard?
I mean even a weekly sample report for a professional grower shouldn't be that difficult.

The main issue comes with, each coral is its own species. Yes, we lump Goniopora all as one… but I can name 3 species I have carried in the LFS;
G. stokesi
G. tenuidens
G. columna

Those 3 species prefer different flow rates, different parameters, different light levels - we can generalise them, but I’ve had tenuidens love lower light whilst stokesi hate it. And I’ve had columna love high flow whilst tenuidens can’t stand it.
So, if you were to do a list of individual list of all the parameters a coral requires, you’d be doing it for each individual species that are carried in a shop. How many species do you think are in just one coral tray at the LFS I have? Here’s a shot of the LPS tray for some idea of the sheer amount of coral that a shop can hold;

Another issue with putting a label in a box with what parameters is people’s advice can (and I know mine absolutely does) contradict the main advice that goes around. I tell so many people that torches want a younger tank - a tank that’s 3 years old needs resetting. The advice I give comes down to what I know about where corals are often found and the processes that make them love it there - for most of the LPS we care for, sediment is dumped over them almost constantly, meaning a high nutrient level and consistent food supplies.
Now, if I was to put on a piece of paper that phosphates should be 1.0 (yes, 1.0 not 0.1) you’d question it heavily and not know if I was a trustworthy seller. If I can sit and explain it in person you’d understand it more - I know this because I’ve spoken to customers about this very scenario in person and they could understand it so much better (even though I was going really scientific with various alluvial processes and marine processes that cause such a high sediment and mineral dump where you find many LPS and softies).

TL;DR -
1. If a label was printed out for EVERY species of coral a shop holds, it would take hours and hours for each delivery sent out.
2. A label to show the parameters for coral may make you question the validity of that vendor and if they’re actually reliable.

 

[George03]

I understand and appreciate the well thought out and delivered answer, and was more or less expecting the perspective to the extreme other end.

So would it not be, something of a benefit to the community for highly successful contributors and vendor help with say "Packaging" coral groups that need similar enviros, like Hey! Set buy this Acro and Acan Adventure, or Explore Goni Galore with this package. Everyone as far as I know picks ala carte by what looks pretty?

Not trying to create argument, but from on struggling reefer to the next.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

When you buy something you should have already researched that info on your own before the purchase. No one will spoon feed you.

 

[X-37B]

I have tested before but not anymore. If shipped to my house it is dipped and put right into the system. Same from the lfs.
It has never been an issue for me over the years.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I understand and appreciate the well thought out and delivered answer, and was more or less expecting the perspective to the extreme other end.

So would it not be, something of a benefit to the community for highly successful contributors and vendor help with say "Packaging" coral groups that need similar enviros, like Hey! Set buy this Acro and Acan Adventure, or Explore Goni Galore with this package. Everyone as far as I know picks ala carte by what looks pretty?

Not trying to create argument, but from on struggling reefer to the next.

Many good shops tell you the salinity the organism came from. If it is lower than my tank (its never higher), that allows me to dilute some tank water to that salinity in advance. Then all I need to do is confirm the salinity, and then once the temps equilibrate, I can immediately remove the creature and put it right into tank water that has no ammonia or other pollutants from shipping.

Then I can take my time equilibrating salinity, knowing the creature is in clean water.

 

[jackson6745]

I’m with you on the par and definitely spectrum that the coral is either growth under or collected in. This would help greatly in placement. With the water parameters and testable elements, there’s just too many variables. It wouldn’t help someone to have these numbers since they’re specific to that particular system.

 

[Reefering1]

Right. And I've would rather the freedom to purchase as I see fit. For a lfs to recommend these corals with those, suggest that they are incompatible with the other. And we all know mixed reef is common. Understand what the corals want/ need and find that within your tank, is the approach I suggest.

 

[George03]

As these responses usually go. From a spectrum of possibilities to immutable absolutes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

As these responses usually go. From a spectrum of possibilities to immutable absolutes.

you criticize folks opinions without providing anything to suggest they are wrong.

While any random reefer might do a suboptimal acclimation, don’t you think that coral farms and resellers whose business model needs the highest possible acclimation success rates (both incoming to them and outgoing to customers) would not have figured out what works well?

I’ve never heard of any business doing and recommending long slow acclimations involving lots of parameters.

 

[X-37B]

you criticize folks opinions without providing anything to suggest they are wrong.

While any random reefer might do a suboptimal acclimation, don’t you think that coral farms and resellers whose business model needs the highest possible acclimation success rates (both incoming to them and outgoing to customers) would not have figured out what works well?

I’ve never heard of any business doing and recommending long slow acclimations involving lots of parameters.

Well said! Adam from BattleCorals is the one who recommended a dip and straight in.
Corals are stressed from shipping and getting them out of the bag, dipped, and into your system asap is what he has found gives him the best success rate.

 

[i cant think]

I understand and appreciate the well thought out and delivered answer, and was more or less expecting the perspective to the extreme other end.

So would it not be, something of a benefit to the community for highly successful contributors and vendor help with say "Packaging" coral groups that need similar enviros, like Hey! Set buy this Acro and Acan Adventure, or Explore Goni Galore with this package. Everyone as far as I know picks ala carte by what looks pretty?

Not trying to create argument, but from on struggling reefer to the next.

It would definitely be a benefit, and absolutely something that shops may eventually start doing (I’ve thought about it personally), it just requires time to sit and have a sheet for each coral and many shops are already overrun when it comes to how much time they have.

Currently what I find shops do and I have started to do is have a label to say what the species of the coral/macro I send out is.
Here was the last package I sent out - 3 Macros. As you can see, I give the scientific (if I can) and with corals, I’ll also give the morph - for example Acropora granulosa/Golden Jawdropper Acro. That gives customers the option to do further research or not about that coral :)

 

[George03]

you criticize folks opinions without providing anything to suggest they are wrong.

While any random reefer might do a suboptimal acclimation, don’t you think that coral farms and resellers whose business model needs the highest possible acclimation success rates (both incoming to them and outgoing to customers) would not have figured out what works well?

I’ve never heard of any business doing and recommending long slow acclimations involving lots of parameters.

That's all that needs to be said then. I never said anyone was wrong, just disagreeable or indirect, maybe a little blunt. I could have responded with smart done remarks, but the absence of that, means I still deserve to be attacked. I get it. It's hard. I was starting out asking is there an easy way to probably cluster like types of corals especially when people are just starting out. To suggest a way to gain early success, so the thing just becomes a big disappointment.

My proposition was simple. What are the vendors doing, dosing, lighting, flowing and recommending or suggesting. That is all. There were no attacks or accusations as far as I can tell.

"Put this batch of flowers in a vase with this amount of light and feed this fertilizer. Plant this bush is moderate afternoon partial sun, and water daily for 2 weeks" I don't think what I was exploring was remotely justifies the comment.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

LFS keep many many types of coral in one tank under one light, very often not ideal to the individual coral under that light. They are trying to flip the coral as fast as possible and they often will tell you what you want to hear to make that sale.

Not trying to belittle your question, it is a good question, I belittle the LFS advise and always encourage everyone to research on their own and disregard the LFS advise.

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

The two main shops I buy online from both list the water parameters on their website under the product descriptions.

They also list lighting in low, medium and high which is generally 50-100, 100-250, and 250+ PAR.