Let's talk about schooling fish...

Dom

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So my 125 build has moved along nicely, and I've been thinking about which fish I'd like to place in the tank.

I'm thinking I'd like to make this a tank which features schooling fish. I've been considering Cardinals to start. Also, I have been considering the Chromis.

Any other suggestions?

Also, When I make my purchase, how many should I purchase? I'm thinking at least 6.

Thank you.
 

blaxsun

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Different types of cardinals school differently. Pajama cardinals just float in one spot of the tank whereas banggai cardinals actually move around together,

In terms of active schooling fish, it's hard to beat chromis and anthias. I'd probably try for a pair of bangaii, a pair of lyretail anthias and a pair of green or blue chromis.
 

exnisstech

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I've tried chromis. Twice I bought 7 and both times I ended up with 1. I've never been a fan of cardinals, at least not bengi or pajama which is all I have seen . They're cute enough but the way they just hover in the water and their jerky way of swimming just doesn't work for me. I have 6 disbar anthias in qt right now. I had my lfs order them and I picked them up still in the bags so they only needed to be acclimated once. So far they are doing well and eating and have been treated for parasites and bacterial infection proactively so hopefully they will be my schooling fish in my 180g.
 

o2manyfish

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For a 125 - Staying with the Cardinal Family - Look for Blue Spine or Blue Eye Cardinals - These aren't super colorful fish - They look like freshwater bleeding heart tetras. When they get established in the tank the blue really stands out and they get more noticeable blue stripes on their side.

While they aren't eye popping. They are eye catching beause they stay in a tight knit school and move around the tank as a pack. My experience with them - over the past 6-7 years - is that pick out one area of the tank and keep to that area. They don't usually move across the entire tank - but I have kept them in 8' and 10' tanks,

Pajama Cardinals in my experience just don't move. They find a spot in the tank and will stay in the same spot for years some times.

Bangai Cardinals are more striking than the blue spine, but they also like to beat the crap out of each other.

One of the only only downsides to the Blue Spine cardinals is that they seem to have a short life span - Maybe less than 3 years. I several times have started with a group of young ones and they at the 2.5 year mark or so they all start passing within a few weeks of each other. You don't lose the whole group, just those of the same age.


Dave B
 

Pntbll687

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So, with the size of our tanks, I don't think you'll ever see true schooling behavior.

Chromis, cardinals will schoal (sp?) and swim together, but not really schooling behavior.
 

ISpeakForTheSeas

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From what I've heard, most fish won't actually school/shoal in our tanks (they either kill each other off over time or just don't display the behavior). Here's what I've heard on schooling/shoaling in our tanks (sorry it's kind of disorganized/long).
Some recommendations I've seen include keeping odd numbers (3, 5, 7, etc.) and keeping large numbers (like 9-11+ fish) for schooling/shoaling.

If I remember correctly, pajama cardinals are one of the better species for it, so you (in theory) shouldn’t have too much difficulty. I don’t know why the odd numbers is suggested, but there might be some valid reasoning behind it. For the large numbers, the idea is diluting the aggression/spreading it out rather than focusing it on one fish. Not many people that I’ve seen are willing to dedicate the tank space to test this, but there’s speculation that it would allow for schooling with some of the more aggressive species (like wrasses).
Most things I've read say that the Pajama Cardinals, while peaceful in groups, don't actually school or shoal much at all in aquariums. Lasse here on R2R even mentioned in a thread that he had 9 of them in his tank, and they pretty much all just do their own thing. I can't speak for the Dispar Anthias, as I've only heard of people keeping them in "mixed schools" of a variety of anthias species.
Yeah, I've heard with schooling/shoaling fish (including green chromis) that you need either a healthy dose of luck, or a large number of fish (9-11+ fish total, with an odd number of them being the recommendation I've gathered from various sources). I'm sure there are other variables (such as food availability and quantity/quality, as well as other tank inhabitants) that come into play with determining if the fish will murder each other or not, but diluting the aggression with a large number of fish is a good place to start.
Alternatively, you could do the ring-tailed cardinalfish (Ostorhinchus aureus). They’re nocturnal and more of a coppery color than vibrant yellow, but they’re cool little fish, and I’ve heard that they should school/shoal pretty well (full disclosure: I have no idea how they’d do long term in a group - they might eventually kill each other like a lot of other cardinals do, or they might be fine).
>Some people have had mixed results with schooling fish - recommendations I've seen include keeping odd numbers (3, 5, 7, etc.) and keeping large numbers (like 9-11+ fish) for schooling. I've also heard that you need to make sure you're getting Chromis viridis (one of like three species commonly known as blue green chromis) for them to not kill each other off.
 

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I'm getting 5 zebra barr dartfish this week. They are the only ones in my research that eventually won't all kill each other. Everything i've read about Cardinals, Chromis, and Anthias are that eventually they just kill each other and you get 1.

We'll see how they do, but i'm hopeful they will offer a nice group swimming aesthetic without turning into a blood bath over time.
 
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Different types of cardinals school differently. Pajama cardinals just float in one spot of the tank whereas banggai cardinals actually move around together,

In terms of active schooling fish, it's hard to beat chromis and anthias. I'd probably try for a pair of bangaii, a pair of lyretail anthias and a pair of green or blue chromis.
Just a pair?

Yes, the Banggai Cardinal is actually the one I was considering. But for it to feel like a school, I'd want more than 2.

Will blue and green Cromis school together?
 

ninjamyst

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Just a pair?

Yes, the Banggai Cardinal is actually the one I was considering. But for it to feel like a school, I'd want more than 2.

Will blue and green Cromis school together?
Banggai don't school. If you get 10, you will end up with 2 or 1.

Blue and green chromis do school but 50% of the time, they kill each other too.
 
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Dom

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Banggai don't school. If you get 10, you will end up with 2 or 1.

Blue and green chromis do school but 50% of the time, they kill each other too.

I wonder why, if they are schooling fish, would they kill each other off?
 

ninjamyst

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I wonder why, if they are schooling fish, would they kill each other off?
Because you are putting them in a 125g tank when they are used to being in the ocean...

Tips to help them school and not kill each other
- healthy stock to begin with. Contrary to what people think, chromis are prone to sickness from stress of shipping and arriving at your LFS. Try to get them after they been acclimated for a few weeks at your LFS. Bonus if they are quarantined.
- provide a large tank. 125 isn't really that big...
- provide lots of hiding spots so when they do fight, they have places to run to and hide
- feed often
- don't have aggressive tankmates. Chromis usually come in small and get picked on.

Do more research and you will see that everyone buy chromis cuz they think they are hardy and cheap and schooling but within a year they usually dead
 

Tamberav

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I wonder why, if they are schooling fish, would they kill each other off?

Schooling is to help evade predators... there are none in our tanks and food is plentiful. Space is small compared to the ocean and we also don't keep super large schools of fish.... It is likely due to being in captivity which is an unnatural state.

Have you seen any good examples of established fish schooling in a reef display? I generally see chromis and anthias in tanks but they are all over or loose enough that I would not call them schooling. When new they school more but they get comfortable and... do more exploring away from each other...

The exception was a very very large tank I saw with a huge HUGE huge school of anthias that pretty much stuck together. Not 3-5-8 anthias but maybe 30+? I have no idea how he accomplished this tbh... maybe there was some types of fish that made them uneasy?
 
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Tamberav

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I pulled a random tank from youtube... this tank is 13 feet... nice tank btw if it is anyones here :) lovely and calming..

Bunch of anthias... would you call this schooling?

 
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Tamberav

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Dom

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I pulled a random tank from youtube... this tank is 13 feet... nice tank btw if it is anyones here :) lovely and calming..

Bunch of anthias... would you call this schooling?



That is a nice tank! Seems a bit crowded, but the inhabitants don't seem to mind.

And you are correct, when I think of schooling fish, I don't think of what is in the video.
 

blaxsun

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Just a pair?

Yes, the Banggai Cardinal is actually the one I was considering. But for it to feel like a school, I'd want more than 2.

Will blue and green Cromis school together?
Yes. First and foremost, you'll probably want other fish (tangs, wrasses, etc.) so you don't want your tank necessarily filled up with one or two types of fish. Second, as has been mentioned - in larger numbers they can and do fight.

Right now I have 12 chromis in my tank: 5x green, 4x lyretail, 2x bicolor and 1x black bar. I also have 4 anthias: 2x lyretail and 2x marcia's. And finally 4 cardinalfish: 2x banggai, 1x pajama and 1x blue eye striped. This is a 200-gallon system, and the above-mentioned fish represent only 40% of total fish.
 

biecacka

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I have tried 10 green chromis, eventually I had 2. They beat each other to death. Never had luck with cardinals in general.
I think we forget that part of the reason shoal in the wild is “strength is in numbers.” It is a method to help survivor rates against predators, but we typically don’t have predators in our tanks so they typically don’t shoal as much.


corey
 

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