Lets talk real world value of ICP Testing / MicroBiome Testing, etc...

[polyppal]

How do you all feel about ICP testing (and now other types of lab aquarium testing, like microbiome testing and tank DNA tests)?

While I could see the results as interesting, I don't really see the overall benefit/value in these types of expensive mail-away tests. Ive never bothered with one, I test the for the major indicators when I have an issue, and would usually solve it simply with water changes.

Personally my reefs have never been so sensitive that a tiny amount of x that was somehow introduced to the system that it threatened to crashed it. Seems to the be the case for most of my local experienced friends, who have not really benefitted from ICP testing.

What are your thoughts and real world experience on the value of all these lab aquarium tests that are out there? Hogwash or has it been of real world value to you?

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Interesting topic! I think the real-world value is from a comparative analysis standpoint and not a single use application. With little data on how each data point influences the inhabitants in an aquarium, it seems pretty difficult to identify what is going on when you are having the problem. This is true with some lab tests for people as well. Single data points are difficult to explain because of the complexity of the system you are analyzing. What is usually most helpful (clinically or real world applications) are trending values or comparison of what your tank looked like at its prime and during the time you are having the problem. With the microbiome testing, I feel like its a little more difficult to know when to get that baseline test because the biodiversity is likely to change and increase from 2 months to 2 years after setting up your tank.

Problem is most people don't think to test their tanks when their tank is doing well. I have not used either of these test yet but I am thinking about doing some baseline testing a year out from my tank being setup, so long as I am not having any obvious issues with my tank.

 

[rtparty]

You can't lump all together into one big "mail-order" group.

DNA and biome testing? They wreak of used car salesmen to me.

ICP testing done by a true lab? Absolutely beneficial and my corals defintely seem to be the healthiest I have ever had.

ICP testing by a guy in his basement? Pointless.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

DNA and biome testing? They wreak of used car salesmen to me.

How so?

 

[polyppal]

Interesting topic! I think the real-world value is from a comparative analysis standpoint and not a single use application. With little data on how each data point influences the inhabitants in an aquarium, it seems pretty difficult to identify what is going on when you are having the problem. This is true with some lab tests for people as well. Single data points are difficult to explain because of the complexity of the system you are analyzing. What is usually most helpful (clinically or real world applications) are trending values or comparison of what your tank looked like at its prime and during the time you are having the problem. With the microbiome testing, I feel like its a little more difficult to know when to get that baseline test because the biodiversity is likely to change and increase from 2 months to 2 years after setting up your tank.

Problem is most people don't think to test their tanks when their tank is doing well. I have not used either of these test yet but I am thinking about doing some baseline testing a year out from my tank being setup, so long as I am not having any obvious issues with my tank.

Yeah I guess maybe some people would thrive on having all that data, but I just don't see how tracking all of it is of great benefit in a home reef tank. If levels of something bad start to rise, wouldn't you just do water changes like anyone else?

Its almost like this hobby is a laboratory/science experiment to some -vs- just having a cool looking reef tank to others (me ). It just seems like another layer of complexity in an already complex hobby

You can't lump all together into one big "mail-order" group.

DNA and biome testing? They wreak of used car salesmen to me.

ICP testing done by a true lab? Absolutely beneficial and my corals defintely seem to be the healthiest I have ever had.

ICP testing by a guy in his basement? Pointless.

Yeah I guess that is a broad grouping - what specifically in the ICP testing has improved your tank chemistry? Did it note something that you were able to remove, or just having the very accurate picture helped you dial things in?

 

[jhuntstl]

Sent out my my first ICP a month ago. Got lost in the mail, but finally got my results today. All good, except pretty high tin. I am going to assume it's accurate and respond accordingly. Water changes and some cuprisorb. Check magnets, metal near the tank, etc.

I'm not totally sold on it's accuracy with trace elements, but this tin reading could explain some of the very slow STN I've seen in some acro frags over the past 2 months.

I'll probably send out another in a month or so.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Yeah I guess maybe some people would thrive on having all that data, but I just don't see how tracking all of it is of great benefit in a home reef tank. If levels of something bad start to rise, wouldn't you just do water changes like anyone else?

I mean I definitely don't think it is necessary by any means but with that you have to accept the possibility that you may not be able to fix the problem by normal means and might be chasing a lot more possibilities for the cause than a much more narrowed down list of possibilities that you might have if you had more information. In most cases water changes probably will do the trick if it was something introduced to the tank one time. But say one of your equipment is leaching some toxic metal into the water, but not showing any obvious signs of deterioration. A water change will only dilute that so much but eventually it will accumulate in the system unless you remove the equipment or are doing 100% water changes (assuming it is not binding to other things in the aquarium). Without knowing it was a toxic metal, you might also not even think to check you equipment or know which equipment might need replacing.

I think these tests are difficult to interpret for them to be used without purpose. I feel like they have their place in the hobby but are definitely not necessary for everyone.

 

[rtparty]

How so?

I question any company that claims to have that "ONE" doctor who identifies all the bacteria in a tank. The "ONE" guy who "figured" it out. I just wasn't impressed listening to them on the BRS live they did.

 

[rtparty]

Yeah I guess maybe some people would thrive on having all that data, but I just don't see how tracking all of it is of great benefit in a home reef tank. If levels of something bad start to rise, wouldn't you just do water changes like anyone else?

Its almost like this hobby is a laboratory/science experiment to some -vs- just having a cool looking reef tank to others (me ). It just seems like another layer of complexity in an already complex hobby


Yeah I guess that is a broad grouping - what specifically in the ICP testing has improved your tank chemistry? Did it note something that you were able to remove, or just having the very accurate picture helped you dial things in?

It allowed me to stop regular water changes (I have many reasons for this) and I just watched my tank do better: corals grow faster, corals color up more, etc...

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

I question any company that claims to have that "ONE" doctor who identifies all the bacteria in a tank. The "ONE" guy who "figured" it out. I just wasn't impressed listening to them on the BRS live they did.

They actually have very sound methodology for testing the microbiome of your tank, the hesitation shouldn't be in the testing but the interpretation of the results. Or what to do with results that you get. I have not seen this video and what they "claim" but it is not about the "one" guy who "figured" it out. I think they are just the first ones to create a consumer based service in the hobby. DNA sequencing and microbiome testing has been used in research for years, its just that 20 years ago DNA sequencing costed hundreds of thousands of dollars and today can be batched with other samples for less than $100.

I would not hesitate on the technology to do this kind of testing but if they are promising some kind of result or identification of your issue with their product, then that's another story.

 

[PeterEde]

If you are auto dosing then ICP would be invaluable to get real data on the tank chemistry.
Easier than having a test kit for every single trace element. Sam Parker did a review of the different ICP tests.
I have used 2 of the companies and got similar results.
I am now dosing trace elements and looking for a doser. I'll then do an ICP to see how my dosing looks.
Obviously a visual on the tank is a good start if things look happy

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Experimenting with in-tank antibiotic treatments for Brown Jelly Disease

Brown Jelly Disease (BJD) is an issue many reefers have run into. Like most coral diseases, the pathogen causing BJD has not been conclusively determined. Here I will share some observations and test results supporting the idea that its caused by...

www.reef2reef.com

This is a great utility of this kind of testing. This is the kind of comparative analysis I was talking about where you see what organisms you find before treatments and what organisms are found after treatment. While there is a lot more to the scientific process than just comparing before and after to assign causation, it is definitely useful to help answer some of the questions we have in the hobby. The aquabiomics testing is a little more for research purposes than diagnostic but I think there is potential utility there too but requires the tester to understand what they are doing and how to test.

 

[Nano sapiens]

I had both ICP-OES and Microbiome tests done when my system was doing well. I certainly didn't need to, but I was just interested in both processes/outputs and the idea of having a 'baseline' I could refer to if anything went awry with my system that I possibly couldn't resolve by more traditional means.

Another one is N-DOC. Interesting from a scientific standpoint and I do wonder how many people have had this one done and have also been able to use the results to affect some type of benefit.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

You can't lump all together into one big "mail-order" group.

DNA and biome testing? They wreak of used car salesmen to me.

ICP testing done by a true lab? Absolutely beneficial and my corals defintely seem to be the healthiest I have ever had.

ICP testing by a guy in his basement? Pointless.

Thanks for the info. What kind of good insights that helped your reef did you get? I haven't done a test yet, but bought one and am considering using it now while I have one dead coral, with another heading in that direction.

Btw does anyone know, did any of these tests show anomalies with the Tropic Marin Turkish salt?