LFS return policy rant

Dsnakes

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I wouldn't buy from that "section" for sure, and would likely use any credit on coral if possible.
Just be sure to QT the coral as well. That’s an often overlooked step which causes outbreaks for people.
Hopefully you receive a good response from him.
 

Halal Hotdog

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I doubt you are the first customer that experienced livestock death for this store. I wouldn't push it with the owner as he has a 'no warranty' sign for a reason. I would definitely take this as a lesson learned and move forward. As you have seen in this experience, QT is critical for adding new fish. Medicated QT is the only way you can reasonably safeguard your current fish. I personally buy most of my fish online now a days because of guarantees, rarely buy locally. LiveAquaria is a good vendor to check out, even though their recent policy changes are very poorly planned.
 
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Indytraveler83

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I doubt you are the first customer that experienced livestock death for this store. I wouldn't push it with the owner as he has a 'no warranty' sign for a reason. I would definitely take this as a lesson learned and move forward. As you have seen in this experience, QT is critical for adding new fish. Medicated QT is the only way you can reasonably safeguard your current fish. I personally buy most of my fish online now a days because of guarantees, rarely buy locally. LiveAquaria is a good vendor to check out, even though their recent policy changes are very poorly planned.
Totally get what you mean. I think the reason I sort of feel I should be an exception, is the fact that these animals started looking very poor before they got out of the bag. I understand he doesn't want to take responsibility for my system and my methods, but if the fish is dying before I even exposed it to my own system, its different.

I've been very tempted to try buying online, but still struggling to get around shipping. I get limited days/times off, and can't just duck out early whenever the UPS guy pulls up. How do working people manage to receive live fish that don't sit on the front porch all day?
 

Bryce M.

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Totally get what you mean. I think the reason I sort of feel I should be an exception, is the fact that these animals started looking very poor before they got out of the bag. I understand he doesn't want to take responsibility for my system and my methods, but if the fish is dying before I even exposed it to my own system, its different.

I've been very tempted to try buying online, but still struggling to get around shipping. I get limited days/times off, and can't just duck out early whenever the UPS guy pulls up. How do working people manage to receive live fish that don't sit on the front porch all day?
my "weekends" are tuesday and friday, so I just order for tuesday. I know people usually have sat and sunday off but that's how I do it
 

Halal Hotdog

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Most of my experience is with LiveAquaria. They offer Saturday delivery as well as T-Th. I usually opt for the day of the week I am off, but for an extra $15 can have them deliver on a Saturday.

Unfortunately he probably knew the system wasn't the healthiest based on the dead Mandarin.
 
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Calebb8133

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None of my lfs have a warranty and while I don't like it u have to understand that if they warrantied all their fish they would be put out of business really fast. Someone new to the hobby could lose allot of fish costing their LFS alot of money. U also excepted the risk of not have a warranty and the fish dying. The local fish store doesn't owe u anything IMHO. Don't worry I understand too because the same thing has happened to me countless times and sometimes my lfs is kind enough to honor a small purchase but I never expected it.
 

Calebb8133

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If the fish really was dying in the bag u should have taken it back and they would accept responsibility but because it went in your system they don't owe u anything that's my opinion
 

skimjim

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I use to work part time in a Coral/Fish LFS for 4 yrs.

The reason most LFS has a NO RETURN POLICY is bc we have NO IDEA what you did with the fish after leaving the store.. which is likely totally your fault

* Did you leave the fish sitting in a hot or cold car for hours?

* did you just dump the fish in the tank without any acclimation? Huuuuuge temp or salinity swings

* did you do some kind of oddball dip or freshwater dip stressing the fish out?

* does your tank have twice the amt of fish its suppose to have?

* did you put it in a tank with known INCOMPATIBILITY?

Soooooo many factors that could have been your fault.. .. and most ppl just LIE about what they did or didnt do to properly add the fish.

Ppl LIE bc they want their money back after knowingly or unknowingly screwed the pooch adding the fish

Our policy was if a fish was returned dead within 24hrs we would sell you another fish at OUR COST (which was about at least 50% off)

You wouldnt return a car you just bought after wrapping it around a telephone pole....




.
 
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Indytraveler83

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Soooooo many factors that could have been tour fault.. .. and most ppl just LIE about what they dud or didnt do to properly add the fish. Ppl LIE bc they want their money back

Our policy was if a fish was returned dead within 24hrs we would sell you another fish at OUR COST (which was about at least 50% off)

You wouldnt return a car you just bought after wrapping it around a telephone pole....
A few points of context:

1) I've bought from this store many times. The owner knows me by first name, he knows that I've bought many fish from him. I've had zero fish fatalities in my dealings with him, and used the exact same QT/transport method, and he shouldn't have any reason to suspect that.

2) I'd be rather ok with a similar deal. 1/2 store credit, half price of similar livestock. I get that I accept some liability, but the question here really is if my relationship with this store should be worth risking for something that was clearly their diseased livestock.

3) Most car dealers have a 24 hr return policy, and trust me, if the car wrapped itself around a telephone pole because it was faulty and a wheel fell off, you better believe I'd be having the broken shell of that thing towed to their lot and request a refund.
 

skimjim

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A few points of context:

1) I've bought from this store many times. The owner knows me by first name, he knows that I've bought many fish from him. I've had zero fish fatalities in my dealings with him, and used the exact same QT/transport method, and he shouldn't have any reason to suspect that.

2) I'd be rather ok with a similar deal. 1/2 store credit, half price of similar livestock. I get that I accept some liability, but the question here really is if my relationship with this store should be worth risking for something that was clearly their diseased livestock.

3) Most car dealers have a 24 hr return policy, and trust me, if the car wrapped itself around a telephone pole because it was faulty and a wheel fell off, you better believe I'd be having the broken shell of that thing towed to their lot and request a refund.
Problem is none of your claims can be proven or unproven. I'm positive you're a stand-up kind of guy but ppl not so honest that screwed up and killed the fish has RUINED IT FOR EVERYONE...

I agree that if you have a decent relationship with the Owner they should resell you your losses at the price of their cost
 
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Indytraveler83

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If the fish really was dying in the bag u should have taken it back and they would accept responsibility but because it went in your system they don't owe u anything that's my opinion
I thought about this, but it's not like online purchases where dead in the bag means automatic refund. My first instinct was to try and save the animals. I did however talk with the owner immediately about the issue as it was happening.
 
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Indytraveler83

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Problem is none of your claims can be proven or unproven. I'm positive you're a stand-up kind of guy but ppl not so honest that screwed up and killed the fish has RUINED IT FOR EVERYONE...

I agree that if you have a decent relationship with the Owner they should resell you your losses at the price of their cost
Completely true. The ironic part of all this, and part of the reason I'm so irked here, is that this place usually does have the best livestock. I've shopped here despite his policy because I believed I was getting better fish and trying to support better practices (that he at least claims to have)

The other lfs's near me are Petco and their super sick, but returnable within 14 days livestock as well as a small place that barely gets anything in, but will return stuff without almost any question/policy.
 

skimjim

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The other lfs's near me are Petco and their super sick, but returnable within 14 days livestock as well as a small place that barely gets anything in, but will return stuff without almost any question/policy.
LFS that have a 14day return policy usually have higher prices.... bc they run the numbers and take into account the total $$$ they have to return and rebuild it into their fish pricing structure.

So they getcha coming or going.

Problem with Fish Sales in most LFSs is there is no account for "shrinkage". It ain't like BestBuy where they absolutely expect 5% of all HDTV sales to be returned as defective and the Mfgr knows 5% of their production are 'lemons"

You gotta realize that when a LFS places their Fish Order from their wholesaler....they have to buy a Minimum $amt ... plus shipping costs are OUTRAGEOUS bc the boxes of Live Fish gets flown in via Commercial Airline companies loading it in the luggage compartments under the feet of the passengers.

CRAZY SIDE NOTE: Working 4 yrs at a LFS I was the one at the Airport picking up our shipments. I would say 25% of most flights had a Decreased Person in a casket boarded up with plywood being flown among your luggage. :eek: Grandpa dies in Florida but gets buried in Ohio. Countless times I would park among 1-2 Hearses as we all waited at the Cargo depot. Common joke was to say "I'm here picking up Live Fish and you're picking up Dead People"
 
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S2G

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If your going to get petco quality fish you might as well buy Petco.

Personally I'd chalk it up to learning and not do any business with them. I'd buy my higher dollar fish online
 
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Indytraveler83

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CRAZY SIDE NOTE: Working 4 yrs at a LFS I was the one at the Airport picking up our shipments. I would say 25% of most flights had a Decreased Person in a casket boarded up with plywood being flown among your luggage. :eek: Grandpa dies in Florida but gets buried in Ohio. Countless times I would park among 1-2 Hearses as we all waited at th "I'm here picking up Live Fish and you're picking up Dead People"
I m starting to think it's cheaper to ship Grandpa than fish!
 
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Indytraveler83

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Here's an update for this one:

The owner called me today and we talked over several possibilities. We could not rule out disease, but after speaking at length regarding his quarantine process and mine another possibility here could have been a medicine interaction or overdose. Since both of us treat fish when they come in we aren't entirely sure what doses these fish were exposed to and if any of the medicines could have interacted.

What he has agreed to do is replace the fish at his cost, one time only. He stated he will not treat the fish with anything, and will allow me to run my quarantine as I intend.

All in all it seems like a fair resolution, and a little more than I was expecting honestly.

He also thanked me for not blasting his company's name on social media and keeping the issues private. I'm putting this update on here mostly for someone in the future as a reference on how to potentially handle a similar situation.
 

hllb

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Here's an update for this one:

The owner called me today and we talked over several possibilities. We could not rule out disease, but after speaking at length regarding his quarantine process and mine another possibility here could have been a medicine interaction or overdose. Since both of us treat fish when they come in we aren't entirely sure what doses these fish were exposed to and if any of the medicines could have interacted.

What he has agreed to do is replace the fish at his cost, one time only. He stated he will not treat the fish with anything, and will allow me to run my quarantine as I intend.

All in all it seems like a fair resolution, and a little more than I was expecting honestly.

He also thanked me for not blasting his company's name on social media and keeping the issues private. I'm putting this update on here mostly for someone in the future as a reference on how to potentially handle a similar situation.
Seems like a great solution. Thumbs up to the LFS and you.
 

2Wheelsonly

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Sorry to hear about the fish but as others said, it's our lesson to learn. This is not the hobby where we can be an uninformed customer and just casually buy stuff because the vendor said it worked. There is so much bad information out there that you often have to be that jerk and see what their system looks like and use that to fuel your trust level because there is a ton of "do as I say, not as I do" in this hobby unfortunately.

The best thing you can do is take notes and not use them again. I got AEFW from a vendor, thought my QT was solid and this hobby is good at reminding you that mistakes can always be made. Is it the vendor's fault? Nope, it can happen to anyone and if I missed it, they could too. Nature does not play favorites.

Now put yourself in the shoes of a random LFS. I have seen parents walk into these places first hand and literally say they are going to put a blue tang in a 10 gallon from petco until it dies just to make their daughter happy because she just saw the second Nemo movie and loved it. These stores deal with absolute morons on a daily basis that have no business being in this hobby, they have a double digit IQ and will never understand what it takes to be successful enough to not constantly kill innocent life.

If they returned livestock, they have NO way of knowing what it went through before it made it's way to your tank and what conditions are in your tank. It sucks but that's the hobby...

The fact that he worked with you speaks volumes because he really should not have felt obligated to do so.
 

Halal Hotdog

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Here's an update for this one:

The owner called me today and we talked over several possibilities. We could not rule out disease, but after speaking at length regarding his quarantine process and mine another possibility here could have been a medicine interaction or overdose. Since both of us treat fish when they come in we aren't entirely sure what doses these fish were exposed to and if any of the medicines could have interacted.

What he has agreed to do is replace the fish at his cost, one time only. He stated he will not treat the fish with anything, and will allow me to run my quarantine as I intend.

All in all it seems like a fair resolution, and a little more than I was expecting honestly.

He also thanked me for not blasting his company's name on social media and keeping the issues private. I'm putting this update on here mostly for someone in the future as a reference on how to potentially handle a similar situation.
That is very nice of him to do. If you plan accordingly you can pickup the fish when it first arrives and take it home in the same bag wholesaler sends it in. The more system the fish go into the larger chance of additional parasite interaction.
 
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