Light, Alkalinity, Nutrients.

[KJoFan]

*goes and shuts off biopellet reactor*

 

[reeferfoxx]

*goes and shuts off biopellet reactor*

Remove that GFO too. I just threw away all my test kits.

However, which ever way Liebig's law is accurately or inaccurately defined, it all seems to pertain to plants or plant life. In such instances light and water can be limiting factors. My only point was, alk and ca can be limiting as well.

 

[CodyRVA]

Basically...

 

[KJoFan]

Remove that GFO too. I just threw away all my test kits.

However, which ever way Liebig's law is accurately or inaccurately defined, it all seems to pertain to plants or plant life. In such instances light and water can be limiting factors. My only point was, alk and ca can be limiting as well.

I don't use GFO, so...go me! Though, we do need nutrient export of some kind...

 

[zachxlutz]

There is a lot to think about here. Wow.

 

[mcarroll]

I don't use GFO, so...go me! Though, we do need nutrient export of some kind...

Rapid coral growth is my favorite form of "nutrient control" and "algae control".

 

[reeferfoxx]

Low level nutrients lessen zoox numbers and reveal hidden coloration. Just not true, and you can test for yourself.

Not sure if it's being reworded but "reveal hidden coloration" would be a new concept to me as well. Like @mcarroll suggested that rapid growth is another form of "nutrient control" and "algae control", (which i can agree with) limited nutrients(N,P) and higher levels of carbonated hardness(stimulating increased/rapid growth) would yield zoox population. Now, I don't think that would reveal hidden coloration but would promote white tips, less color, and possible bleaching. Because, we are suggesting that calcium phosphate precip and nitrate absorption spur growth in coral. In "artificial environments" like our reef tanks, where I think Liebig's Law is violated, nutrients can be limited especially in initial dry rock systems and/or with the use of filter media.

 

[mcarroll]

@reeferfoxx there are some indications that the pretty colors we all revere so much in our corals could be a state of near-bleaching. One of the saddest scenes in Chasing Coral looked very much like this beautiful website's splash page. Not naming names...that's not the point....the point is that we have an ideal in mind that could be less than ideal. I've always thought their splash page was amazing, BTW.

 

[reeferfoxx]

@reeferfoxx there are some indications that the pretty colors we all revere so much in our corals could be a state of near-bleaching. One of the saddest scenes in Chasing Coral looked very much like this beautiful website's splash page. Not naming names...that's not the point....the point is that we have an ideal in mind that could be less than ideal. I've always thought their splash page was amazing, BTW.

Gotcha! The pastel look.

 

[TbyZ]

Well I've read through this thread, in one go start to finish, & have come to a conclusion!

My brain hurts.

And I haven't started on mcarroll's links yet.

 

[chefjpaul]

Well I've read through this thread, in one go start to finish, & have come to a conclusion!

My brain hurts.

And I haven't started on mcarroll's links yet.

The links and blog are great, but will lead you down a rabbit hole of google searching. I was up until 3AM one night, had to work at 5.[emoji12]

 

[Dana Riddle]

Just a quick comment... If your present maintenance protocol is working for you, don't change it!

 

[Nano sapiens]

So to recap: *Some* very healthy coral ecosystems have high nutrient concentrations. Many, if not most, hobbyists do not have the means to accurately measure nutrients (especially nitrate.) Some hobbyists attempt to control phosphorus through export by algae or chemical means. These will not remove organic phosphorus which is anaerobically converted to reactive phosphate. How do we determine what gets the reactive phosphate first – corals or algae, algae or corals? Feeding will add organic nitrogen and phosphorus to the water. So, some go to great lengths to remove nutrients (which probably can’t be measured correctly) only to add nutrients back to the water. This might make sense to many, but not to me.

I don't think it's possible to determine which organisms would get the inorganic phosphate first. Inorganic phosphate (orthophosphate) in the water column would be available to which ever organisms want to consume it. Besides macro and micro alga, corals/false corals would have a use for it to help nourish their zooxanthellae

Ralph.

 

[bubbaque]

@Dana Riddle What would you do to prevent "burnt tips" if you don't believe it's nutrient related? I even read where you had an alk spike and had no burnt tips.

 

[Dana Riddle]

@Dana Riddle What would you do to prevent "burnt tips" if you don't believe it's nutrient related? I even read where you had an alk spike and had no burnt tips.

Frankly, I don't know since my hypothesis (high alkalinity) needs a lot of work before we can call it a theory. I'm growing out corals now and can probably get some experiments underway in a couple of weeks.

 

[TbyZ]

Listening to a MACNA presentation by the fella who came up with Triton method. Says adding zinc stops tip burn in low nutrient high alk systems.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I'll take a look - thanks! Zinc is one of the metals in the SOD antioxidant enzymes that detoxify the oxygen radicals produced by photosynthesis. This fits nicely with my thought that amplified photosynthesis due to high inorganic carbon is the cause of tip burn.

 

[TbyZ]

I'll take a look - thanks! Zinc is one of the metals in the SOD antioxidant enzymes that detoxify the oxygen radicals produced by photosynthesis. This fits nicely with my thought that amplified photosynthesis due to high inorganic carbon is the cause of tip burn.

Considering your thoughts above Dana, &, your previous comment - >>>"Photosynthesis (along with respiration) will produce harmful oxygen radicals and hydrogen peroxide which are destructive if not detoxified by dismutase enzymes" <<< do you believe that growing algae to filter the water contributes significantly, or at all, to this oxygen radical problem?

Or in other words, should dismutase enzymes, or at least zinc, be dosed if utilizing algae to filter aquarium water?

 

[Dana Riddle]

Considering your thoughts above Dana, &, your previous comment - >>>"Photosynthesis (along with respiration) will produce harmful oxygen radicals and hydrogen peroxide which are destructive if not detoxified by dismutase enzymes" <<< do you believe that growing algae to filter the water contributes significantly, or at all, to this oxygen radical problem?

Or in other words, should dismutase enzymes, or at least zinc, be dosed if utilizing algae to filter aquarium water?

Triton apparently recommends dosing of zinc for 'tip burn' while Tim W's recent paper suggests too much zinc is harmful. Let me see if I can find more info.

 

[mcarroll]

Just a quick comment... If your present maintenance protocol is working for you, don't change it!

+1