Lithium...

[saltwaterwhatwhat]

I want to make some breeding tanks, but I've noticed questionable data about lithium...how would one remove lithium from their tank because I really love Instant Ocean...? : )

 

[jason2459]

I don't think you'll find a saltmix with low levels of Li

http://reef2reef.com/threads/saltmix-parameters-bring-on-the-test-results.233233/

 

[saltwaterwhatwhat]

I realize that - this is why I am questioning how you can remove lithium from a tank...thank you for your information though - as I have been through that stuff...

FYI - I appreciate any input : )

 

[saltwaterwhatwhat]

I have also had my tanks through the Triton testing - and am aware of those findings...

 

[JimWelsh]

Methods of removing lithium from seawater that I've come across involve using manganese oxide or metatitanic acid as adsorbents, and the processes are not very casual-fish-room-friendly. I'm curious what "questionable data" you are referring to -- what, specifically, is your concern?

FWIW, I tracked the Triton results of a large number of people who have posted their results, and also what salt mix they used. Very consistently, those reefers using Red Sea Coral Pro had the lowest Li levels, which were generally around only 150% of NSW levels or so.

 

[saltwaterwhatwhat]

I've noticed that there is a lot of data saying that it would affect the development of urchin embryos...I am very much dabbling in this, and want to get somewhere, however, everything seems to have some level of lithium, no matter what...though, for a college student studying urchins on a budget, IO is my friend...

 

[JimWelsh]

Of course everything has some lithium. Seawater has a fair amount of lithium (appx. 180 ug/kg). In fact, it is among the most abundant of the minor elements.

Again, RSCP and also, checking my notes again, just regular old Red Sea, seem to have Triton Li results of < 250 ug/L.

What were your Triton-reported Li levels?

If it were easy to remove lithium from seawater, Li-based batteries would be much cheaper than they are now.

 

[jason2459]

Interesting about RSCP. I have some that will be in soon and I'll be sending a sample off to triton shortly after that.

 

[jason2459]

I realize that - this is why I am questioning how you can remove lithium from a tank...thank you for your information though - as I have been through that stuff...

FYI - I appreciate any input : )

Sorry, I guess I should rephrase as what I was trying to say didn't come through well or at all. Others are much better with words then I.

Basically there's not a good method for this. Commonly saying a water change will help reduce some trace element thats elevated. However, since saltmixes are a major source of the elevation problem you'd spin your wheels.

If you can source a good supply of natural seawater that may help. But many that sell "natural" seawater in a box are not so pristine in that they have altered the seawater to the point its not truly natural anymore.


And there possibly could be a saltmix with decently low Li levels to consider. I'm getting started again as i just got some fresh DI. First up will be some Aquaforest salts and then that RedSea Coral Pro.

 

[jason2459]

Of course everything has some lithium. Seawater has a fair amount of lithium (appx. 180 ug/kg). In fact, it is among the most abundant of the minor elements.

Again, RSCP and also, checking my notes again, just regular old Red Sea, seem to have Triton Li results of < 250 ug/L.

What were your Triton-reported Li levels?

If it were easy to remove lithium from seawater, Li-based batteries would be much cheaper than they are now.

FWIW I've got two results back from Triton of samples (from two diferent containers) Ive sent in of Tropic Marine Pro with Li levels at around 197-199ug/L with salinity @~35ppt. But it is one of the more expensive brands. If it wasn't as costly that's the brand I would be using.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

I wonder if anyone can speak from a refugium/macro perspective?
http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/lithium/lithium-and-water.htm

I too dislike the lithium content of salts given how little we really know. Though it seems American salts have more vs Euro salts. I would guess it's the sourcing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wonder if anyone can speak from a refugium/macro perspective?
http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/lithium/lithium-and-water.htm

I too dislike the lithium content of salts given how little we really know. Though it seems American salts have more vs Euro salts. I would guess it's the sourcing.

I've not seen any data suggesting the levels of lithium we see in reef tanks (even though elevated over NSW) is an actual tox concern. Real tox from lithium happens at much higher concentrations, typically, especially in marine systems where all the positive ions such as sodium at vastly higher concentration compete for uptake.

This has some data:

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC36197#Ecotoxicity

 

[RobBaglieri]

I worked with sea urchin embryos in college. We used instant ocean in our tanks. The only thing you could do to guarantee Li free water is to make the salt mix yourself. I would imagine that any college chemistry lab should have everything you need. I would make up the mix and then send it out for analysis.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

I've not seen any data suggesting the levels of lithium we see in reef tanks (even though elevated over NSW) is an actual tox concern. Real tox from lithium happens at much higher concentrations, typically, especially in marine systems where all the positive ions such as sodium at vastly higher concentration compete for uptake.

This has some data:

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC36197#Ecotoxicity

Looks like a big lack of data.. ☺

 

[Robthorn]

I have breed multiple species of clowns and cardinals in instant ocean for almost 20 years. Raised many to adulthood. I have grammas breeding and have had yellow wrasses doing the swirly dance.
I do not recommend listening to fear breeders and just do your thing. Triton is a great offering but is not the only way to do things.

 

[saltwaterwhatwhat]

I've not had issues breeding other creatures with many salts, but...again, my concern is toward the little beginnings of life...

 

[saltwaterwhatwhat]

thank you all for your input...

 

[JimWelsh]

Would you care to share links or references to the literature that discusses Li toxicity to urchins? More specifically, what level of Li is indicated as being problematic? What, specifically, is the science that describes the problem that needs to be solved here?

 

[jason2459]

cross posting as it seems like topics tend to trend together and this half of the week seems to be all about Li....


FWIW, I have used IO for many years and over 7 Triton samples sent in from my tank over the past year my Li levels have averaged around 397 as detected by Triton.

Under the microscope I see plenty of life at all levels from every sample I take from any area of the tank I look there's various types of eukaryotes and prokaryotes, like bacteria of all different sizes and types like single tiny 1um cocci bacteria, larva of many types, many various pods, diatoms, sponges, phototrophs and heterotrophs of many varieties, etc.

 

[dragon99]

Would you care to share links or references to the literature that discusses Li toxicity to urchins? More specifically, what level of Li is indicated as being problematic? What, specifically, is the science that describes the problem that needs to be solved here?

Here's an article from Randy that references a couple studies done concerning lithium and urchins.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/3/chemistry