ICP - MS Test Results Recomendations

[wcharon]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley ...

Hope you are doing well and thanks for your always advise in advance. Long time Reefer here but first ICP Test after leaking tank and crash.

I decided to make the test in order to see how i was doing with my schedule. For my surprise the results came with a 75% and 0 detectable in Reverse Osmosis which i think is great for the first time. I assume i am in a good track.

At the moment i change 15 gallons Bi-Weekly and dose Kalk and 2 Part. All DIY Receipit.

Where i have some concerns is with the following results as everything else came normal with Reef Crystal Salt.

Base elements:

Salinity - 37.00 PSU / No concern here. Will adjust. Means my refractometer is OK.
KH - 9.02 °dKH / No concern here. Will adjust Red Sea Test Kit.

Major elements:

Magnesium - 1162 mg/l / No concern here. Will adjust with DIY.
Sulfur - 790.5 mg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 983.6 mg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

Bromine - 99.56 mg/l / What will you recommend here to lower it?
Ideal value: 72.42 mg/l
ABOVE NORMAL

Fluorine - 0.37 mg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 1.41 mg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

Minor elements:

Lithium - 1997 µg/l / What will you recommend here to lower it?
Ideal value: 183.7 µg/l
CRITICALLY HIGH

Iodine - 22.28 µg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 70.26 µg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

Barium - 1.408 µg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 10.81 µg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

Manganese - 0.012 µg/l / Will raise it with DIY.
Ideal value: 1.08 µg/l
BELOW NORMAL

Iron - < 0.20 µg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 0.54 µg/l
BELOW NORMAL

Vanadium - 0.352 µg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 1.62 µg/l
BELOW NORMAL

Zinc - 0.628 µg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 2.16 µg/l
BELOW NORMAL

Nutrients:

Nitrate - Not detectable / Will feed more.
Ideal value: 2.00 mg/l
BELOW NORMAL

Phosphorus - 4.83 µg/l / Will feed more.
Ideal value: 16.21 µg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

Phosphate - 0.01 mg/l / Will feed more.
Ideal value: 0.05 mg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

I have also attached the Report in case you want to see something else.

In resume mode,

1. I think i am going to change my water change routine from 15 gallons bi-weekly to 20 gallons.
2. Start using Tropic Marine A and K Supplements to se if any of those low values gets up.
3. My main concerns which i never heard are: Bromine, Fluorine, Lithium, Barium, Vanadium and Zinc as i don't know from where they come from (Jajajajajajaj).

What you think and once again BIG THANKS in advance.

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley ...

Hope you are doing well and thanks for your always advise in advance. Long time Reefer here but first ICP Test after leaking tank and crash.

I decided to make the test in order to see how i was doing with my schedule. For my surprise the results came with a 75% and 0 detectable in Reverse Osmosis which i think is great for the first time. I assume i am in a good track.

At the moment i change 15 gallons Bi-Weekly and dose Kalk and 2 Part. All DIY Receipit.

Where i have some concerns is with the following results as everything else came normal with Reef Crystal Salt.

Base elements:

Salinity - 37.00 PSU / No concern here. Will adjust. Means my refractometer is OK.
KH - 9.02 °dKH / No concern here. Will adjust Red Sea Test Kit.

Major elements:

Magnesium - 1162 mg/l / No concern here. Will adjust with DIY.
Sulfur - 790.5 mg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 983.6 mg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

Bromine - 99.56 mg/l / What will you recommend here to lower it?
Ideal value: 72.42 mg/l
ABOVE NORMAL

Fluorine - 0.37 mg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 1.41 mg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

Minor elements:

Lithium - 1997 µg/l / What will you recommend here to lower it?
Ideal value: 183.7 µg/l
CRITICALLY HIGH

Iodine - 22.28 µg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 70.26 µg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

Barium - 1.408 µg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 10.81 µg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

Manganese - 0.012 µg/l / Will raise it with DIY.
Ideal value: 1.08 µg/l
BELOW NORMAL

Iron - < 0.20 µg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 0.54 µg/l
BELOW NORMAL

Vanadium - 0.352 µg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 1.62 µg/l
BELOW NORMAL

Zinc - 0.628 µg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 2.16 µg/l
BELOW NORMAL

Nutrients:

Nitrate - Not detectable / Will feed more.
Ideal value: 2.00 mg/l
BELOW NORMAL

Phosphorus - 4.83 µg/l / Will feed more.
Ideal value: 16.21 µg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

Phosphate - 0.01 mg/l / Will feed more.
Ideal value: 0.05 mg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

I have also attached the Report in case you want to see something else.

In resume mode,

1. I think i am going to change my water change routine from 15 gallons bi-weekly to 20 gallons.
2. Start using Tropic Marine A and K Supplements to se if any of those low values gets up.
3. My main concerns which i never heard are: Bromine, Fluorine, Lithium, Barium, Vanadium and Zinc as i don't know from where they come from (Jajajajajajaj).

What you think and once again BIG THANKS in advance.

My 2c

Bromide - let it fall naturally. Not a concern at that level.
Fluoride - Lots of supplements or DIY (See Randy's DIY thread) to raise this. If DIY, mixing this element poses personal safety risk - wear PPE!
Lithium - That's VERY high. You might have something corroding in the tank.
Iodine - I use SeaChem Reef Iodide. Works well. Doesn't take much!
Barium - Only supplement I know of is Reef Moonshiners. Barium is probably not something needed (I know Randy has stated this to be true). I use it, but adhere strictly to RMS.
Manganese - Easy DIY or there are supplements.
Iron - Easy DIY or there are supplements - I use RMS.
Vanadium - I use RMS supplements, but this is also in quite a bit of foods. I rarely have to dose much as it comes from elsewhere.
Zinc - I use RMS supplement for this. Doesn't take much though to bring it up.

NO3/PO4 - There are a bunch of DIY and commercial supplements to bring these up. Feeding only may bring it up, but you are also risking adding more DOC/organics to the water. I like to only feed what is necessary and use automated dosing for these to keep them steady at ~15ppm NO3, ~0.13ppm PO4.

Did the ICP test look for things like Neodymium or any other pollutants? That lithium value is insanely high if that is correct. Look for electronic equipment somewhere adding this. Also if you are using regular storage bins/non hobby storage for RODI or salt mix, that could also be adding it.

 

[Minifoot77]

I know your asking randy but have you looked into the moonshiners calculator?

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

I know your asking randy but have you looked into the moonshiners calculator?

I was going to suggest that but it tends to oversaturate the concentration with the assumption that you will solely use their elements. DIY'ing can push that above suggested concentration pretty fast.

 

[KStatefan]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley ...



Magnesium - 1162 mg/l / No concern here. Will adjust with DIY.
Sulfur - 790.5 mg/l / What will you recommend here to get it up?
Ideal value: 983.6 mg/l
CRITICALLY LOW

magnesium sulfate would help with both of those instead of the normal DIY blend.

You can also send your ICP to Captiv8 and he will send you a spreadsheet with recommendations

 

[wcharon]

My 2c

Bromide - let it fall naturally. Not a concern at that level.
Fluoride - Lots of supplements or DIY (See Randy's DIY thread) to raise this. If DIY, mixing this element poses personal safety risk - wear PPE!
Lithium - That's VERY high. You might have something corroding in the tank.
Iodine - I use SeaChem Reef Iodide. Works well. Doesn't take much!
Barium - Only supplement I know of is Reef Moonshiners. Barium is probably not something needed (I know Randy has stated this to be true). I use it, but adhere strictly to RMS.
Manganese - Easy DIY or there are supplements.
Iron - Easy DIY or there are supplements - I use RMS.
Vanadium - I use RMS supplements, but this is also in quite a bit of foods. I rarely have to dose much as it comes from elsewhere.
Zinc - I use RMS supplement for this. Doesn't take much though to bring it up.

NO3/PO4 - There are a bunch of DIY and commercial supplements to bring these up. Feeding only may bring it up, but you are also risking adding more DOC/organics to the water. I like to only feed what is necessary and use automated dosing for these to keep them steady at ~15ppm NO3, ~0.13ppm PO4.

Did the ICP test look for things like Neodymium or any other pollutants? That lithium value is insanely high if that is correct. Look for electronic equipment somewhere adding this. Also if you are using regular storage bins/non hobby storage for RODI or salt mix, that could also be adding it.

Thanks @Reginald Reefer III for the input and all the advise.

I use Home Depot for the RO storage and mixing salt but will check for something there or maybe the mag pump i use for mixing.

Regarding pollutants yes they did and everything came Normal. I just excluded it from the list but it is on the attached PDF.

Pollutants

Al.
Aluminium

2.960 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.11 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Sb
Antimony

0.321 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.11 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Bi
Bismuth

< 0.01 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.11 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Pb
Lead

< 0.02 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.11 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Cd
Cadmium

< 0.05 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.22 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
La.
Lanthanum

< 0.01 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Tl
Thallium

0.003 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.11 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Ti
Titanium

0.088 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.11 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Nb
Niobium

< 0.07 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Nd
Neodym

< 0.05 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Zr
Zirconium

0.031 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Ge
Germanium

< 0.00 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Ga
Gallium

0.045 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
W
Tungsten

0.061 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Hg
Mercury

< 0.07 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Te
Tellur

0.091 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature

 

[wcharon]

I know your asking randy but have you looked into the moonshiners calculator?

Sorry to insolate only on Randy as any input is appreciated.

Honestly no. Will give that a look.

Thanks for that.

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

< 0.07 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Nd
Neodym

This should ALWAYS be zero unless you are using an ICP that does not have that kind of clarity.

 

[wcharon]

< 0.07 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Nd
Neodym

This should ALWAYS be zero unless you are using an ICP that does not have that kind of clarity.

Thanks once again. Will get some readings to see how i can lower it or it will go down with normal water changes?

Actually the 0.07 is for Nb. 0.05 is for Nd.

Are both supposed to be 0?

Nb
Niobium

< 0.07 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature
Nd
Neodym

< 0.05 µg/l
Ideal value: 0.001 µg/l
NORMAL
Near nature

 

[Minifoot77]

Sorry to insolate only on Randy as any input is appreciated.

Honestly no. Will give that a look.

Thanks for that.

Its a free download just the time to put the numbers in and a number of us are having success with the rm method

 

[wcharon]

Its a free download just the time to put the numbers in and a number of us are having success with the rm method

Thanks. I appreciate that. Will look for it now.

 

[wcharon]

Thanks. I appreciate that. Will look for it now.

Its a free download just the time to put the numbers in and a number of us are having success with the rm method

Done. I already put the numbers.

Will look in it more in details when i get home. I found strange that they have different values of recommendations on some tests vs ATI. Not huge but they are different.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What company did the ICP?

Are you doing any routine water changes? Some issues are not readily solve din any otehr way, and you need to be sure the salt mix is not the cause (e.g., lithium).

You have a conflict between the high salinity and low magnesium and sulfate. Lowering salinity will lower those further, so lower salinity first then first, then work on magnesium additions. Sulfate and magnesium will drop by 6% making the salinity correction.

I would not worry about the bromide.

I would not dose barium unless it was in a solution that I otherwise wanted to use. I think it not useful.


The tropic Marin A and K is a fine plan for those that need raising.

 

[wcharon]

What company did the ICP?

Are you doing any routine water changes? Some issues are not readily solve din any otehr way, and you need to be sure the salt mix is not the cause (e.g., lithium).

You have a conflict between the high salinity and low magnesium and sulfate. Lowering salinity will lower those further, so lower salinity first then first, then work on magnesium additions. Sulfate and magnesium will drop by 6% making the salinity correction.

I would not worry about the bromide.

I would not dose barium unless it was in a solution that I otherwise wanted to use. I think it not useful.


The tropic Marin A and K is a fine plan for those that need raising.

Thanks Randy...

The ICP -MS was made by ATI.

Yes, i make 15 gallon WC bi-weekly with Reef Crystal. Yes, that is my plan first work with Salinity, KH and Magnesium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not know if lithium at that level is an issue, but it is pretty high and cannot be lowered except by water change.

I understand you are in a post crash scenario, but in the absence of a clear ongoing issue, I would not make the big effort to change lots more water to lower lithium. RC is not typically a cause that I am aware of.

 

[wcharon]

I do not know if lithium at that level is an issue, but it is pretty high and cannot be lowered except by water change.

I understand you are in a post crash scenario, but in the absence of a clear ongoing issue, I would not make the big effort to change lots more water to lower lithium. RC is not typically a cause that I am aware of.

Thanks for the advice. Actually, i don't want to make too much changes at once so i can have a clear scenario and see what affects what.

My plan is to wait around 1 to 2 months and do another ICP test and evaluate both tests.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the advice. Actually, i don't want to make too much changes at once so i can have a clear scenario and see what affects what.

My plan is to wait around 1 to 2 months and do another ICP test and evaluate both tests.

Sounds like a fine plan.

Are you, or were you, dosing calcium and alkalinity, and if so, how? That may be a source of lithium.

 

[rtparty]

Reef Crystals and IO Purple are both some of the highest lithium salts I tested and I’ve seen that repeated over many tests now.

However, they are not nearly that high. Usually in the 300s.

That’s either a typo by ATI, testing error, or something is adding it routinely

 

[wcharon]

Sounds like a fine plan.

Are you, or were you, dosing calcium and alkalinity, and if so, how? That may be a source of lithium.

Yes. I am dosing both (2 part DIY) Arm & Hammer / Earthborn Calcium Chloride) and also Kalk (Mrs. Wages) via Doser.

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

Yes. I am dosing both (2 part DIY) Arm & Hammer / Earthborn Calcium Chloride) and also Kalk (Mrs. Wages) via Doser.

If you aren't doing this, bake the Arm & Hammer (Sodium Bicarbonate) and turn it into Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) for alk dosing. Much more potent and easier to achieve alk levels than Sodium Bicarbonate. Also gives you a slight pH boost.