Live ocean rock, or not
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ctylermast
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Price is better on that site. I may do it, unfortunately I can’t get away without doing fish, I already have 2 clowns and a goby in a system I’m taking down, I’m setting up a new system but probably won’t turn lights on for two months. I’m just trying to avoid mistakes that were made and increase bio diversity as much as possible and many have said ocean rock is the way.
Merry Christmas by the way way
Do it! I did dry rock and then added just a few pounds of live rock after cycling. Next tank I do will be live rock and sand from the start.
BoaConservationist
Active Member
what mistakes did you have? ive not in one instance had "live rock" actually be beneficial , the stuff sits for weeks before ever reaching you , sometimes months, laden with a bunch of stuff you will eventually fight off, anything you want thats beneficial for you could be obtained via sterile bottle, no need for this IMO
I know some people swear by it , but the reality is we have seen zero cytology on live rock to compare it to something like a week or month long cycled dry rock build... so honestly, its all hearsay (unless im missing something and someone actually proved this out in a measurable way) -- Nitrifying bacteria doesn't take that long to setup, other then that your only other beneficial in that stuff is going to be cope/arthopods/passenger starfish , literally everything else would be considered a pest? The list of pests is very long, and the list of whats needed for a successful reef is very short, get the jist?
A hell of alot easier to go to any wholesaler and just buy a cheap colony. you have literally liveR ? more alive? rock this way, as the rock had animals attached so the care was proven.
Never been big on it, also never been 100% sure its as sustainable as its claimed to be. ~ Merry Xmas :)
I know some people swear by it , but the reality is we have seen zero cytology on live rock to compare it to something like a week or month long cycled dry rock build... so honestly, its all hearsay (unless im missing something and someone actually proved this out in a measurable way) -- Nitrifying bacteria doesn't take that long to setup, other then that your only other beneficial in that stuff is going to be cope/arthopods/passenger starfish , literally everything else would be considered a pest? The list of pests is very long, and the list of whats needed for a successful reef is very short, get the jist?
A hell of alot easier to go to any wholesaler and just buy a cheap colony. you have literally liveR ? more alive? rock this way, as the rock had animals attached so the care was proven.
Never been big on it, also never been 100% sure its as sustainable as its claimed to be. ~ Merry Xmas :)
billyocean
10K Club member
Lol...I do know that mature rock at the minimum is basically an instant cycle. Dry rock and "sterile bottle" bacteria isnt going to provide any kind of time frame like mature rock. I can't quantify that in a paper cuz im no scientist....but I can absolutely tell you its a fact from experience. I'll never start a tank with just dry rock again.
BoaConservationist
Active Member
If I had the extra money / didn't care getting scammed id buy some "live rock" and run cytology to prove it, someone wants this experiment done send me some supplies ^,^ , id wager, that you will have a more robust cycle with dry rock and coralline spores, pure nitrosomonas a copepod and bush style macroalgae
, I think people run into mistakes in other places and end up thinking its the rock /cycle of the tank or failing to forget that what goes in has to come out or perish , that rock aint the reason you overdosed beneficial bacteria , alot died, and now your phosphates 2.0 :D (just an example) -- alot of time people think the rocks are leeching phosphate but its not that at all, youre adding way too much bacteria and when it dies its converting straight into organic phosphate.
As a side note, ill actually take and drop some rocks in the local ocean this coming spring/summer and cycle some dry rock myself to run this test :D -- sad truth is the current state of all reefs around the worlds ***** grim, where are they pulling healthy reef from arent we at like 80% mortality in past 10 years?
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billyocean
10K Club member
Ok. I can't waste my time with all this logic. Im just trying to help someone asking about live rock and kp aquatics has life and corraline all over it...shipped in water to your door. Tell us a little about your tank and what methods you used via dry rock and bottle bacteria that led to your success. Im not even being a SA just legit always willing to learn more. What corals do you keep and what not...throw some tank pics up as well. Like I said...im no scientist..Just experienced with both starts on a tank but that doesnt make me an expert.
Live rock start up.
Dry rock start up.
Dry rock start up.
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ctylermast
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Well I’ve had my set up for about 9 months , was only 35 g and all hob filter and skimmer.
I’m setting up a 40g with a 20g sump now. I just made alotnof mistakes. I blasted alotnof light very quickly. I didn’t focus on dosing bacteria frequently. Once I was registering nitrate I figured I was good. Didn’t focus on bio diversifying. 4 different types of Dino’s and GHA took over. I wanted a new set up anyways so it just made since this is the time to nuke my tank and set up again and restart properly.
Clarkjw2002
Active Member
This. There are a few hobbyist eDNA studies floating around that show much more biodiversity in a long term system started with live rock. Cytology is a diagnostic tool, not a biodiversity detection tool. There are tons of undescribed bacteria and other lifeforms that would never be picked up with cytology because the culture media/techniques would not be appropriate for detection.
It can be done either way, but in my 20+ yrs of setting up tanks the most problems I ever had was with dry rock tanks. Argue what you want about biodiversity. There are countless others with similar experiences but they are getting harder to find. Dry rock cycling wasn't a thing until around 2010 or so, and then live rock became impossible to find. Hence most new hobbyists have little or no experience with live rock.
BoaConservationist
Active Member
Starting with dry rock doesn’t mean a “sterile” or unsafe tank anymore — it just means you control what biology goes in. Live rock used to be the only way to import nitrifying bacteria and coralline, but today those can be added intentionally via bottled cultures (Prodibio BioDigest/Nitrosomonas, ARC Reef Coralline, pods, etc.), without importing aiptasia, bryopsis, vermetids, crabs, or other long-term pests. It’s also the more sustainable option and gives you predictable outcomes and better aquascaping freedom.
There’s also an important distinction between an instant biological cycle and immediate livestock safety. Products like Prodibio Stop Ammo don’t magically complete the cycle, but they bind toxic ammonia into a non-toxic, bioavailable form --convert to aminos etc--, protecting fish and inverts while bacteria colonize the rock and surfaces. Paired with a proper nitrifier, the tank is functionally safe from day one, even though the microbial population is still maturing. No shortcuts to biology — just a cleaner, more controlled way to get there.
There’s also an important distinction between an instant biological cycle and immediate livestock safety. Products like Prodibio Stop Ammo don’t magically complete the cycle, but they bind toxic ammonia into a non-toxic, bioavailable form --convert to aminos etc--, protecting fish and inverts while bacteria colonize the rock and surfaces. Paired with a proper nitrifier, the tank is functionally safe from day one, even though the microbial population is still maturing. No shortcuts to biology — just a cleaner, more controlled way to get there.
billyocean
10K Club member
And the tank pics?
BoaConservationist
Active Member
True nitrifying bacteria first became commercially available for home aquariums in the early 2000s, with products like Marineland Bio-Spira (2002–2003).
Why it matters:
Before that, bottled products didn’t contain real nitrifiers, so live rock was the only reliable way to cycle a tank. Modern bottled nitrifiers do establish the nitrogen cycle, which is why dry rock + bacteria is now a proven, controlled, and pest-free way to start a reef.
Ill get you some tank pics later, merry christmas, you 100% dont need live rock, and are likely better off without.
Usually now that we solved the bacteria problem, the number of people importing rock anyway is very very very low, and its usually imported in batches when either an aquarium or a rich/wealthy person buys it, and the source isnt always ethical, the rest go publicly on the market.
Why it matters:
Before that, bottled products didn’t contain real nitrifiers, so live rock was the only reliable way to cycle a tank. Modern bottled nitrifiers do establish the nitrogen cycle, which is why dry rock + bacteria is now a proven, controlled, and pest-free way to start a reef.
Ill get you some tank pics later, merry christmas, you 100% dont need live rock, and are likely better off without.
Usually now that we solved the bacteria problem, the number of people importing rock anyway is very very very low, and its usually imported in batches when either an aquarium or a rich/wealthy person buys it, and the source isnt always ethical, the rest go publicly on the market.
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billyocean
10K Club member
Indeed....merry Christmas to you and yours.
Reefering1
7500 Club Member
Fwiw, nitrifying bacteria is inevitable, you can't prevent it from developing in a tank with water. Diversity is so much more than controlling ammonia. Think of all the little critters that keep the tank clean and healthy, the Marco algeas that outcompe nuisance and problematic blooms. Sponges, coraline, feather dusters, worms, and bonus corals. The complete biome. Not just bacteria.
CHSUB
2500 Club Member
My current system, 2 tanks connected, started with dry rock and then after a year when the second tank was connected added Tampa Bay Live Rock. After about a year can’t tell rock from rock. Live rock is neat but it’s the hobbyist skill that determines the outcome.
And bottle bacteria is 100% garbage….
And bottle bacteria is 100% garbage….
BoaConservationist
Active Member
to me, bottled bacteria is 1000x better than live rock chopped off a reef somewhere, when for the past 10 years we have been having back to back critical bleaches...
some people dont love the animals or process but just the look, sadly :(
but yes, find ampouled bacteria and you will cycle in 7 days to handle an adequate load, cycling time versus load amount. its all an equation.
RobupstateNY
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I had GREAT luck with Marco live rock, GO FOR ITI’m considering ordering live rock from the keys to assist in seeding a new tank that I’m setting up. Good or bad idea, would love to hear someone’s experience.
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