Birdman Broham
Active Member
My 125G has 4 fish. And I feel like it’s crowded. I can’t imagine how all those fish feel
Long time lurker, newish tank, confusing water levels, need help please
- Thread starter Caliguy
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00W
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I don't think this even makes sense to you.
You are failing these animals.
I'm bowing out now for fear of saying something wholly not me.
Hopefully someone more important than myself can get you to see where it is you are going wrong here since I obviously can't get through to you.
Peace out and never forget about the animals.
kevgib67
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I initially thought this was a joke question. Please listen to those above and please don’t ever go back to the lfs that sold you all this and gave you horrible advice. They should not be in business!
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
Something tells me he would have ended up in the same situation regardless... he wants a "busy reef", ya know...
ScottJ
Well-Known Member
In other words, " Huh, I guess I don't really have a problem after all."
Please, listen to what everyone is telling you. You just have too much in there.
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Caliguy
New Member
I did read your post but other than the obvious response from the 10 other people about reducing fish, not really that helpful. Sorry if that’s hard to hear but it’s an honest response.
1. Don’t add anything else - does this include a caress clam or clean up crew? Obviously no more fish but what about nitrate eating organisms?
2. Getting rid of fish - yes yes this has been addressed. I can get rid of all my fish to solve the problem too or maybe all but 1. I can also get a 5000 gallon aquarium too to help Soviet problem.
Truth is I got tricked into this hobby by my lfs who told me they can have me set up in 24 hours with an aio, a large 20”+ puffer and once a month water changes. While I always wanted a salt tank I kept throwing money at it and kept upgrading as I wasn’t prepared to give up as well as put al that money to waste. I’m learning in my own here, had no guidance, and was actually given very bad guidance. If my only solution here is giving fish away that I want to enjoy, I might as well quit the hobby because sure I can maybe still enjoy it without the unicorn tang and the abbarant nasso that are all white, maybe even get rid of the gold rim tang as one of the Atlantic blue tangs if push comes to shove but then I have fish like my two gem tangs, yellow eye Hawaiian Kole tang, yellow tang (those were expensive fish that I’m not going to give away and I doubt I’m even going to get anywhere close to what I paid for them, even if I did find a buyer.
I’ll figure this out. I need to get my testing accurate first now
Birdman Broham
Active Member
Buy a 1000G tank. You will be fine
00W
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This whole thread has been hard to hear.
My honest response.
All of my posts are helpful. That's what I do.
I just didn't say what you wanted to hear which is "please fix my parameters problem. "
Less fish, less feeding=less nitrate, less phosphate. Water changes with lower alk salt =fixing that problem AND nitrate problem. It's right there.
You're getting guidance here, from those who know.
Don't have to give away all your fish. I said cut it back.
"They're expensive," you said.
Sometimes you win some, sometimes not, but NOT at the expense of the animals. Not their fault.
Sorry you got tricked into this. It happens. You aren't the only one.
Obviously you came on here for help.
We're helping.
Tank is too young for a clam or any coral.
Learn to take care of the fish first.
No amount of testing is going to fix this.
If you keep that load of fish, ammonia is the only thing you're going to want to test for because there's no way you're tank can keep up with the mess. All your other numbers won't mean anything.
Your fixated on these numbers and values.
That's not helping your understanding of what is going on.
Like I said which you missed:
20 % water change with IO every week for a month and you're numbers will line right up.
But that's not the magic cure all. Tank doesn't go bang I'm perfect.
PATIENCE is what you need.
You're anger at the LFS is getting in the way. Let that go,take a step back pick some fish you enjoy, take the rest back,lose the money,wait, do your water changes and enjoy the hobby.
Start a tank thread on here.
Go slow.
Don't dose anything . No reason for it.
Do anything other than what you are doing now. It's not working.
My honest response.
All of my posts are helpful. That's what I do.
I just didn't say what you wanted to hear which is "please fix my parameters problem. "
Less fish, less feeding=less nitrate, less phosphate. Water changes with lower alk salt =fixing that problem AND nitrate problem. It's right there.
You're getting guidance here, from those who know.
Don't have to give away all your fish. I said cut it back.
"They're expensive," you said.
Sometimes you win some, sometimes not, but NOT at the expense of the animals. Not their fault.
Sorry you got tricked into this. It happens. You aren't the only one.
Obviously you came on here for help.
We're helping.
Tank is too young for a clam or any coral.
Learn to take care of the fish first.
No amount of testing is going to fix this.
If you keep that load of fish, ammonia is the only thing you're going to want to test for because there's no way you're tank can keep up with the mess. All your other numbers won't mean anything.
Your fixated on these numbers and values.
That's not helping your understanding of what is going on.
Like I said which you missed:
20 % water change with IO every week for a month and you're numbers will line right up.
But that's not the magic cure all. Tank doesn't go bang I'm perfect.
PATIENCE is what you need.
You're anger at the LFS is getting in the way. Let that go,take a step back pick some fish you enjoy, take the rest back,lose the money,wait, do your water changes and enjoy the hobby.
Start a tank thread on here.
Go slow.
Don't dose anything . No reason for it.
Do anything other than what you are doing now. It's not working.
Caliguy
New Member
Maybe I just missing something. I understand the effect of too many fish on water quality, and poor water quality effect on fish. My goal here is better water quality and I’m trying to find out if there are any other options besides getting rid of fish. I acknowledge in my original post that I knew that was a solution but I’d like that to be my last resort if there are any other options to try first. I have over $10k into fish and coral, yes it’s too early for it and the tank is too young, but here I am and I’m not ready to throw in the towel and lost the money if there’s something I can do about it, even if that means buying a bigger tank now that I can take with me to the new house later rather than wait for the new house. Getting rid of the livestock will be the last resort. I’m anticipating the next tank will be 270g DT + sump volume, I understand the response here is that even that’s not enough.
I’m not worried about the ammonia, it was 0 for the last two months, and that was with an even heavier bio load. I highly suspect the ammonia I have now was from this dying toadstool (see photo) I have since removed it and I suspect the ammonia won’t be an issue.
Lastly, here is a link for someone’s giant tank, as far as how close the fish are together, I’m not noticing much of a difference ratio wise. Fish don’t appear to mind being near each other, as long as they have plenty of safe places to hide and enough food. I’m obviously not a marine biologist but that’s just my observations of ish in the ocean and in aquariums. The important part I was lead t understand is if there enough swimming room for the fish, meaning is 48” x 22”x 22” enough space for that sizable hippo tang. Everything else is water quality concerns only. Otherwise every lfs and every wholesaler/distributor is cruel for having fish in small boxes extremely cramped together. I mean let’s face it, any fish confined to any size tank rather than the ocean can be considered cruel even I the water quality is perfect. By no one’s heart seems to be broken there.
I’m only frustrated because even though I specifically stated that I knew it was overloaded and that removing fish was my last option, people seemed to ignore that fact.
While typing this, I thought, what about converting one or two 275g water totes into additional sump capacity or as giant refugiums, that should solve my bioload problem and I can get those totes for about $100 each. And I wouldn’t have to lose $5-$10k worth of livestock.
I’m not worried about the ammonia, it was 0 for the last two months, and that was with an even heavier bio load. I highly suspect the ammonia I have now was from this dying toadstool (see photo) I have since removed it and I suspect the ammonia won’t be an issue.
Lastly, here is a link for someone’s giant tank, as far as how close the fish are together, I’m not noticing much of a difference ratio wise. Fish don’t appear to mind being near each other, as long as they have plenty of safe places to hide and enough food. I’m obviously not a marine biologist but that’s just my observations of ish in the ocean and in aquariums. The important part I was lead t understand is if there enough swimming room for the fish, meaning is 48” x 22”x 22” enough space for that sizable hippo tang. Everything else is water quality concerns only. Otherwise every lfs and every wholesaler/distributor is cruel for having fish in small boxes extremely cramped together. I mean let’s face it, any fish confined to any size tank rather than the ocean can be considered cruel even I the water quality is perfect. By no one’s heart seems to be broken there.
I’m only frustrated because even though I specifically stated that I knew it was overloaded and that removing fish was my last option, people seemed to ignore that fact.
While typing this, I thought, what about converting one or two 275g water totes into additional sump capacity or as giant refugiums, that should solve my bioload problem and I can get those totes for about $100 each. And I wouldn’t have to lose $5-$10k worth of livestock.
Look, would you buy 8 dogs of varying breeds and stick them in a room the size of a bathroom, forever? Bioload is only 1% of the issue here. People have stopped responding because there isn't a way to do it nicely and still get through to you.
You must remove some of those fish. You are actively abusing them, the water chemistry is only a small part of the problem.
Your link to a " busy" reef is a massive 17,000 gallons with appropriate space and consideration for all of the creatures in it and there are probably still folks who would like to see less fish in that tank.
If you removing fish from the tank will be the nail in the coffin for you in the hobby then this hobby may simply not be a good fit, I'll just say it I suppose. The help you need is the help being offered here, remove some of the fish.
You must remove some of those fish. You are actively abusing them, the water chemistry is only a small part of the problem.
Your link to a " busy" reef is a massive 17,000 gallons with appropriate space and consideration for all of the creatures in it and there are probably still folks who would like to see less fish in that tank.
If you removing fish from the tank will be the nail in the coffin for you in the hobby then this hobby may simply not be a good fit, I'll just say it I suppose. The help you need is the help being offered here, remove some of the fish.
00W
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Removing the fish should have been your FIRST option, not last.
You are ignoring THAT fact.
Your fact is just plain wrong.
That toadstool won't put a dent in ammonia in 130 gallons.
Seems like you have plenty of dough so go out tomorrow and buy them a bigger tank.
I'm trying to send you as many positive vibes as I can but you're not picking up what all of us are putting down.
You are ignoring THAT fact.
Your fact is just plain wrong.
That toadstool won't put a dent in ammonia in 130 gallons.
Seems like you have plenty of dough so go out tomorrow and buy them a bigger tank.
I'm trying to send you as many positive vibes as I can but you're not picking up what all of us are putting down.
Just Stop!
Sell everything you own to a aquarists that can give your fish proper husbandry. Or donate your fish to an aquarium for the tax write off. You are concerned about your investment with all these fish, but if you don't get out now they will all die and you will be left with nothing. Oh wait, you will just open your wallet and buy more.
You are an example of the type of person that gives this hobby a bad name. Activists show tanks like yours to lawmakers and say the world has to stop this.
What is going thru your mind? Why do you feel that anything you are doing is ok? Do you feel that once you purchase and animal their life is yours to do with as you please?
We as hobbyist and aquarists have all lost fish and corals, it happens. But we try to achieve better husbandry for our animals in our care. That sentiment seems lost on you. Until you realize this you should not keep any animals.
I was going to suggest you restart your journey with a Fluval 13.5g and a clownfish, but sadly I cannot even recommend that.
I would suggest purchasing a yearly membership to your local public aquarium and pretend those fish are yours. At least your money would be going to something positive. And you just might learn something.
Sell everything you own to a aquarists that can give your fish proper husbandry. Or donate your fish to an aquarium for the tax write off. You are concerned about your investment with all these fish, but if you don't get out now they will all die and you will be left with nothing. Oh wait, you will just open your wallet and buy more.
You are an example of the type of person that gives this hobby a bad name. Activists show tanks like yours to lawmakers and say the world has to stop this.
What is going thru your mind? Why do you feel that anything you are doing is ok? Do you feel that once you purchase and animal their life is yours to do with as you please?
We as hobbyist and aquarists have all lost fish and corals, it happens. But we try to achieve better husbandry for our animals in our care. That sentiment seems lost on you. Until you realize this you should not keep any animals.
I was going to suggest you restart your journey with a Fluval 13.5g and a clownfish, but sadly I cannot even recommend that.
I would suggest purchasing a yearly membership to your local public aquarium and pretend those fish are yours. At least your money would be going to something positive. And you just might learn something.
Ok Caliguy, first, you came to the right place. Everyone got alittle upset over animal loss first. People spend hundreds on meds to treat and save one fish! Now, I joined R2R in 2016 and lurked for a couple years trying to learn more about a hobby husband and I started in the 80’s. I loved, loved Humblfish (look him up) and did learn that your enthusiasm is the same for all of us. Maybe if we had unlimited funds, who knows? But, you have options here. Can you or do you have room to set up a 250-300 g tank as well? Or how long before house is built, wow, you can do one of those awesome builds and use 250 as sump. Your fish load my be ok temporarily. You can also buy a canister filter, outside of sump and add phosphate remover media, etc(about &140 on Amazon).We got one for our 1000g pond and stream for Koi, talk about a slowww…. Build. My personal thoughts, more money than dents right know…. For Now! Please don’t throw in the towel, we’ve been lucky we never had a crash, because we’ve always gone slow, no budget helped too. Lots of pod vendors here, look at posts today about benefits. We started with a German tank with trays w/bio balls that trickled down to bottom and returned to top aio. And a diatom filter once couple of weeks. I’d sit in front of aquarium with magnifying glass looking at stuff once we added live rock.
And, BTW, those new rollers go back to old outdated filter floss! We still buy carbon, poly pad, phosphate remover in our sump. It’s cheaper than rollers to manually remove.
I recommend looking up Paul B on R2R. He’s on he’ll of a reefer, fishkepper. You might get a good perspective, if you’re on the coast especially.
Sorry, you can think “ what” a stupid post, just trying to help
P.S. if we built our house again, you bet we’d build in an aquarium!
Best thoughts and luck, Debra
I’m sorry for the typos, was upset reading posts, those posts may sound harsh, but lots of experience on here. I forgot to mention I found a local guy on YouTube,
Meleves Reef back in 2016 too. He has weekly videos on Saturdays. Before we had the pleasure of meeting him, I liked him so much and his 400g personal reef I knew when our tangs got to big, I’d beg him to rehome. We had the pleasure of welcoming him to our home for advice, it was our faulty R/O system Duh, if we tested, lesson learned, and I introduced my tangs and said, ther’er yours! I have had the pleasure of raising them for 5,6,7 years and will break my heart to lose, but, I owe them the best. You love yours already. I’m sure you’ll do the best, I don’t want any money, just a visit lol. Maybe there’s someone close to you temporarily till the house is ready, or find someone like nice guy Mark you can rehome when needed.
Off the soapbox
Debra
Meleves Reef back in 2016 too. He has weekly videos on Saturdays. Before we had the pleasure of meeting him, I liked him so much and his 400g personal reef I knew when our tangs got to big, I’d beg him to rehome. We had the pleasure of welcoming him to our home for advice, it was our faulty R/O system Duh, if we tested, lesson learned, and I introduced my tangs and said, ther’er yours! I have had the pleasure of raising them for 5,6,7 years and will break my heart to lose, but, I owe them the best. You love yours already. I’m sure you’ll do the best, I don’t want any money, just a visit lol. Maybe there’s someone close to you temporarily till the house is ready, or find someone like nice guy Mark you can rehome when needed.
Off the soapbox
Debra
Blopple
Active Member
Glad you made a post for some advice. Sorry about the guidance from the LFS, that place sounds like trash.
From my perspective there are only two options here.
1. Remove a significant number of those fish
2. Get a significantly larger tank -AND- don't add more.
Option one is the responsible thing to do here.
Along the lines of other's reactions - You're worried about peeling paint on the walls, but the house is on fire.
From my perspective there are only two options here.
1. Remove a significant number of those fish
2. Get a significantly larger tank -AND- don't add more.
Option one is the responsible thing to do here.
Along the lines of other's reactions - You're worried about peeling paint on the walls, but the house is on fire.
Do you think he’ll be ok for a few months?
Caliguy
New Member
Well I guess I’ll go back to lurking. This has been a giant waste of time. 2 pages of the same answer for something I already acknowledge in my first post.
If this was an addiction support group and I came for help with my drug addiction because my life was going down hill, the “support” I would’ve received from this group would have been “stop doin drugs”.rather than, hey the ultimate goal is to get you to this result, it’s not easy but here are some tips you can use to help along the way.
I would’ve expected methods to help the water quality until I can get a bigger tank, suggestions on which fish to start with if it came down to removing based on size and need and type, rock work organization, other things to add or remove that could help.
If these were dogs in a bathroom then one dog in a bathroom is too many and everyone who has dogs in a bathroom or fish in a tank is being cruel. I just don’t agree. Sorry if that makes me evil. But the fish aren’t breathing heavy, they’re not fighting or showing any agression, they’re not stressed, not getting diseases or parasites, and they’re well fed. I spend several hours each day with the tank checkin on one by one looking for any marks, parasites, I make sure no one is missing or stuck under rock work, or looking too skinny, I check for fin rot, swollen or bloody eyes, and evaluate their growth over time (most of which are obviously larger than they were two months ago, some even doubled in size). And I spend even more hours researching and trying to learn.
Fish wholesale distributors will put 10 tangs in a 2’x2’ Tank. The fish store will put 2 tangs and an angel in a 1’x1’ tank and the hobbyist community proudly supports these places and continues to give them money. The suggestions of bringing them back to the lfs where the fish will be put in ultra low salinity 1’x1’ tank with a pvc pipe seems worse to me, and absolutely no knowledge whatsoever as to where they’ll go next. But hey, once back at the lfs, who cares right? Sounds elitest and hypocritical to me. Maybe the lfs elsewhere are better but out of the only two in my county, one has a better selection of products as used to have more unique fish but exuberant high prices and a priority of selling as much as possible even if it means duping a new hobbyist with bad info. The other store has poor inventory in both product and fish, but has good prices but also bad quality of fish (several sick or no doing well in their tanks).
I’ll go back to figuring it out on my own I guess. I thought of the idea of a larger sump to get me more water volume, perhaps it wi atleast give the better water quality until I can get my larger tank (bare minimum 90-120 days until delivered from the date of order) and can start thinking about which fish create the most effect on water quality, need the most space, difficulty of replacing, and potential lifespan and age they are now to help me decide which is worth rehoming or keeping.
Until then,I decided to use an api test kit instead of the Hannah to cross reference results.
Ammonia somewhere between 0 and .25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate between 20 and 40
Copper 0 (Hannah reads .15 for both my tank and a fresh batch of salt water)
If Red Sea pro coral silt is supposed to get me alk of 12 and I’m getting 11.1 I’m not worried.
Since I’m not dosing anything I’m told to have a calcium level greater than 600 would be darn near impossible unless I’m using a contaminated water source. I made a new fiend who is a hobbyist just he other day who offered to test my water and give me a good idea what it is in case I’m performing the test wrong. His tanks are crystal clear with thriving coral.
Until then, I removed the cuprisorb from the media reactor and put in some carbon, did a 25g water change
If this was an addiction support group and I came for help with my drug addiction because my life was going down hill, the “support” I would’ve received from this group would have been “stop doin drugs”.rather than, hey the ultimate goal is to get you to this result, it’s not easy but here are some tips you can use to help along the way.
I would’ve expected methods to help the water quality until I can get a bigger tank, suggestions on which fish to start with if it came down to removing based on size and need and type, rock work organization, other things to add or remove that could help.
If these were dogs in a bathroom then one dog in a bathroom is too many and everyone who has dogs in a bathroom or fish in a tank is being cruel. I just don’t agree. Sorry if that makes me evil. But the fish aren’t breathing heavy, they’re not fighting or showing any agression, they’re not stressed, not getting diseases or parasites, and they’re well fed. I spend several hours each day with the tank checkin on one by one looking for any marks, parasites, I make sure no one is missing or stuck under rock work, or looking too skinny, I check for fin rot, swollen or bloody eyes, and evaluate their growth over time (most of which are obviously larger than they were two months ago, some even doubled in size). And I spend even more hours researching and trying to learn.
Fish wholesale distributors will put 10 tangs in a 2’x2’ Tank. The fish store will put 2 tangs and an angel in a 1’x1’ tank and the hobbyist community proudly supports these places and continues to give them money. The suggestions of bringing them back to the lfs where the fish will be put in ultra low salinity 1’x1’ tank with a pvc pipe seems worse to me, and absolutely no knowledge whatsoever as to where they’ll go next. But hey, once back at the lfs, who cares right? Sounds elitest and hypocritical to me. Maybe the lfs elsewhere are better but out of the only two in my county, one has a better selection of products as used to have more unique fish but exuberant high prices and a priority of selling as much as possible even if it means duping a new hobbyist with bad info. The other store has poor inventory in both product and fish, but has good prices but also bad quality of fish (several sick or no doing well in their tanks).
I’ll go back to figuring it out on my own I guess. I thought of the idea of a larger sump to get me more water volume, perhaps it wi atleast give the better water quality until I can get my larger tank (bare minimum 90-120 days until delivered from the date of order) and can start thinking about which fish create the most effect on water quality, need the most space, difficulty of replacing, and potential lifespan and age they are now to help me decide which is worth rehoming or keeping.
Until then,I decided to use an api test kit instead of the Hannah to cross reference results.
Ammonia somewhere between 0 and .25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate between 20 and 40
Copper 0 (Hannah reads .15 for both my tank and a fresh batch of salt water)
If Red Sea pro coral silt is supposed to get me alk of 12 and I’m getting 11.1 I’m not worried.
Since I’m not dosing anything I’m told to have a calcium level greater than 600 would be darn near impossible unless I’m using a contaminated water source. I made a new fiend who is a hobbyist just he other day who offered to test my water and give me a good idea what it is in case I’m performing the test wrong. His tanks are crystal clear with thriving coral.
Until then, I removed the cuprisorb from the media reactor and put in some carbon, did a 25g water change
Blopple
Active Member
If you're intent on keeping most of the fish, then offering advice for your system is way out of my scope.
It's certainly not how most people would address the problems, but I imagine there are at least a few people here who might be able to suspend their personal issues with the tank, accept that you're gonna keep the fish, and try to help regardless.
I can offer that a clam is likely not a good idea. I would be concerned about compatibility with the large angels and the lack of stability at the moment.
Truly hope this works out for you and the fish, man.
Interesting that you brought this up. You are behaving like an addict. Most addicts do not self enroll into a support group. Usually there is an intervention of people that care. That in itself is what most people are trying to accomplish here. You are asking us how to do drugs and still live a normal life in society. Now you are even asking which drugs to quit. ("suggestions on which fish to start with if it came down to removing based on size and need and type,")
The first step in caring for your addiction is admitting you have problem. Up to this point you are in denial.
If you were authentic with your statement on doing tons of research and caring about your charges, you would not be in this situation at all. I believe you are reading what you want to and interpreting it so you believe this is ok. It is not.
You need to understand that there are many people on this forum that have much more experience than you. You need to respect that and consider their advice, because they actually care and are willing to take time out of their day to help others and you.
You can go back to lurking and not admit the real issue. But you will just end up homeless in Oakland.
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