Looking for feedback on proposed propagation setup

steveb · Mar 11, 2011

I'm looking into converting part of our tandem garage into a propagation area. Help me figure out what to use for propagation tanks...

Pros/Cons?

96lx24wx12h

or
66lx36wx18h

or
Maybe 48x24x12 glass (home made)

For lighting I was considering a couple of 150w MH on a light mover for the 8' or one 150MW w/light mover over the 4' or 5' tank. I also thought abut T5 but am concerned about qty of bulbs and frequency of replacement.

For water movement I was going to use a tub w/live rock/chaeto/skimmer with up to four returns.. depends on length of propagation vessel. I was also thinking about using a borneman surge device on each prop tank. Anyone use one successfully?

The plan will be to install two to start for SPS and then will do another two on a separate sump for LPS/softies later. On the fiberglass tanks I need to buy 4 at a time to get a discount + incremental cost on shipping is not much. If I build the tanks from glass I dont have shipping but worry about build quality

Also probably would not do a surge device w/glass.

Also looking for ideas for prop tanks if you have them...

steveb · Mar 14, 2011

No feedback?

Here is kinda what I was thinking about...

drainbamage · Mar 14, 2011

it sounds like you have a really good idea in place- I for one can't think of much to offer as feedback for ya at this point because of that, hah! If you have any particular debates going on, please feel free to mention them and we'll all try and weigh the pro's/con's.

As far as your tub sizes- I'd prefer the 18" depth- much easier to build some frag racks (or pick some up from theblueglow) and raise height than it is to shade corals getting too much light. Also, you can stack frag racks for lower light corals and gain more surface area that way.

Between the tubs vs a glass tank- I'd recommend at least one glass tank somewhere- unless you're doing no SPS. With SPS, side viewing and photo'ing seems to be more preferable than top-down, excepting maybe Efflo's and other flat form growers.

Alpha Aquaculture · Mar 14, 2011

I like your ideas very much.

Im not sure if 150watts on a light mover will be enough for all corals. I also think your gonna run into problems having a 12inch tall tank and a surge device. I would increase it at least a few more inches.

Keep us filled in on your build.

steveb · Mar 15, 2011

drainbamage said:
it sounds like you have a really good idea in place- I for one can't think of much to offer as feedback for ya at this point because of that, hah! If you have any particular debates going on, please feel free to mention them and we'll all try and weigh the pro's/con's.

As far as your tub sizes- I'd prefer the 18" depth- much easier to build some frag racks (or pick some up from theblueglow) and raise height than it is to shade corals getting too much light. Also, you can stack frag racks for lower light corals and gain more surface area that way.

Between the tubs vs a glass tank- I'd recommend at least one glass tank somewhere- unless you're doing no SPS. With SPS, side viewing and photo'ing seems to be more preferable than top-down, excepting maybe Efflo's and other flat form growers.

AlphaCorals said:
I like your ideas very much.

Im not sure if 150watts on a light mover will be enough for all corals. I also think your gonna run into problems having a 12inch tall tank and a surge device. I would increase it at least a few more inches.

Keep us filled in on your build.

Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I am thinking about using this reservoir instead... Polyethylene Tank, Rectangular, 110 gal., 55" x 31" x 18". I hate to go to 250w MH what about 175watt? I was also going to plumb in a 40 breeder for pic's etc.

steveb · Mar 18, 2011

I signed the lease on a storage unit today to store all of the seasonal stuff that is in the tandem now. So hopefully will get it all moved tomorrow. Once that is done then I can enclose the tandem and open up the wall between the laundry room and the tandem. Can't believe my wife said ok to it....

Madreef · Mar 18, 2011

Could you utilize solar tubes for lighting and just supplement with t5 or LEDs? I like the idea of using the plastic bins, but I agree that some glass or acrylic tank will be needed for taking photos. Also a good plan for nutrient controll will be key in your success IMO.

steveb · Mar 19, 2011

Madreef said:
Could you utilize solar tubes for lighting and just supplement with t5 or LEDs? I like the idea of using the plastic bins, but I agree that some glass or acrylic tank will be needed for taking photos. Also a good plan for nutrient controll will be key in your success IMO.

No I can't. The tandem garage sits directly underneath the upstairs family room. Well I could but I don't think my wife would be to keen on it :wink: -- I am looking into DIY LED's instead of MH w/light mover but I think the entry cost will be to high. Need to come up w/the #'s on this though.

By nutrient control I assume you mean skimmer/GAC/GFO/Refugium/carbon dosing? If so yeah I am definitely going to use an over sized external skimmer (i'm going to try feeding heavily) and am still thinking about a refugium inline somewhere if for nothing else to help reduce PH swings. I just didn't want to complicate the drawing with it. My preference would almost be to have the surge device fire through a refugium and then have that dump into the frag tank. I have used bio pellets on a little mixed reef tank that is actually over stocked but they don't seem to really help. GAC/GFO and water changes every week along w/the skimmer seems to be what works best - I don't even have to test I just watch the fire and ice digitata, when it stops looking like a hairy monster (i.e. polyps dont come out as much) I know the NO3 is up (which is about every five days).

steveb · Mar 19, 2011

I'm most likely going to end up using a TP110 Polyethylene Tank, Rectangular, 110 gal., 55" x 31" x 18" from Aquatic Eco Systems. I like 8' length and 2' width of the other tank I posted at the top of the thread but I think 12" is just too shallow.

Troylee · Mar 19, 2011

12" is plenty if you don't use the surge device.... All my frag tanks have been 12" I actually like 10" myself....

steveb · Mar 19, 2011

Do you have any issues w/ light acclimation w/a 10" - 12" depth? I was originally planning on running 10" depth allow another 2" for the surge device but a lot of folk in my local club thought I would have to many issues w/light acclimation.

steveb · Mar 19, 2011

I could always build a frame 8'x2'x16" (and run a 12" depth). I just am not real keen on laying fiberglass in it and dealing w/all of the vapors from the resin. What about a couple of layers of EPDM pond liner?

mdb_talon · Mar 19, 2011

I use mostly 12" tanks. Also a 16"(originally a lobster tank) and a couple standard 120g. I greatly prefer the 12" tanks over the other. I run mine with about 10" of water as well (no surge device though). I have zero problems with light acclimation, but I dont have the tank lit completely evenly. It is darker on the edge. I can acclimate by moving horizontally rather than vertically if I need to. Honestly though I dont have a lot of issues with it.

I like having as little water as possible in my frag tanks maybe it dont really make a difference but I like to keep the food and supplements as concentrated as I can when feeding and things like that(close return to sump for feeding). I have most of my water volume in a refugium and a sump on each system, but the actual frag tanks I keep as little water as possible. Also like as shallow as possible just because I find it so much easier when working in the tank (especially with a wide tank such as yours when you must reach across and down).

steveb · Mar 19, 2011

mdb_talon said:
I use mostly 12" tanks. Also a 16"(originally a lobster tank) and a couple standard 120g. I greatly prefer the 12" tanks over the other. I run mine with about 10" of water as well (no surge device though). I have zero problems with light acclimation, but I dont have the tank lit completely evenly. It is darker on the edge. I can acclimate by moving horizontally rather than vertically if I need to. Honestly though I dont have a lot of issues with it.

I like having as little water as possible in my frag tanks maybe it dont really make a difference but I like to keep the food and supplements as concentrated as I can when feeding and things like that(close return to sump for feeding). I have most of my water volume in a refugium and a sump on each system, but the actual frag tanks I keep as little water as possible. Also like as shallow as possible just because I find it so much easier when working in the tank (especially with a wide tank such as yours when you must reach across and down).

That is why I liked the 8'x2'x12" as well not to wide. Well I think I will stick w/the original plan then. I guess I will need to play with it once I get them to see if I can avoid the splash at the end from the surge device. Or maybe I can find some wave dynamics formulas to determine how high the wave will be at the end of the tank.

mdb_talon · Mar 19, 2011

baringcs said:
I could always build a frame 8'x2'x16" (and run a 12" depth). I just am not real keen on laying fiberglass in it and dealing w/all of the vapors from the resin. What about a couple of layers of EPDM pond liner?

Could always consider building with acrylic. On shallow tank with proper bracing you dont have to get very thick and relatively inexpensive. Not that hard even i did it (though my seams are not display quality)

steveb · Mar 25, 2011

So here is an issue that I am hoping someone can help me resolve... If you look at the diagram you will see that i am trying to us surge devices (carlson/borneman). But that leaves me in a quandary on how to manage ATO. I have no doubt that water levels will fall/rise in the sump as the surge devices fill and then release. Anyone ever used surge devices with ATO? If so would you mind sharing how you managed it?

steveb · Mar 25, 2011

Maybe something along these lines
<Optical Liquid Level Sensor OS-900>

Optical Liquid Level Sensor - OS-950
OS-950 Miniature Plastic Optical Level Sensor
These solid-state optical level sensors have no moving parts. The built-in optical electronics provides a switched output level sensor that can sense the presence or absence of fluids to 125Â°C. The Polysulfone housing ensures this level sensor is compatible for use in a broad range of liquids, ideal for medical and industrial OEM level sensing needs. This miniature plastic optical level sensor is ideal for low level or point level monitoring for medical diagnostic equipment, sterilizers and washer, or dialysis equipment.

OS-950B
"ON" when Dry (dry sink output)

And then set it so that when both surge buckets are full that should be when the sump has the lowest amount of water in it and if dry then ATO needs to activate?

Troylee · Mar 25, 2011

baringcs said:
Do you have any issues w/ light acclimation w/a 10" - 12" depth? I was originally planning on running 10" depth allow another 2" for the surge device but a lot of folk in my local club thought I would have to many issues w/light acclimation.

sorry i missed this..... no i dont actually and i run a 8 bulb t5 i had to raise the lights to like 14" off the water but i like them high since the tank is more of a look down anyways...1smile1

Troylee · Mar 25, 2011

your ato shouldnt be a issue really if there is baffles in the sump and the ato is in the last compartment with the return pump.... i don't think so anyways...