Looking for opinion on dosing equipment.

fredjr · Nov 2, 2017

Hey fellow reefer, Like it says in the title, I'm looking for opinions on Dos and DDR dosing systems. I was wondering if it's worth the money to go with the one for the Apex or go a cheaper rout. I have an Apex jr. Thanks for the input.

jml1149 · Nov 2, 2017

fredjr said:
Hey fellow reefer, Like it says in the title, I'm looking for opinions on Dos and DDR dosing systems. I was wondering if it's worth the money to go with the one for the Apex or go a cheaper rout. I have an Apex jr. Thanks for the input.

My opinion on dosers is as follows:

1. Jebao - Absolute turd. Never again. I know some people have had success but I had significant failures. Not worth the money even if it is the cheapest option. There's no support and I couldn't find spare parts. Maybe somebody else can. Not worth the money.

2. Cheap e-bay option from China: I tried one of the $20 dollar peristaltic pumps from e-bay, didn't last more than a couple months, tubing was really small for what it was.

3. BRS Dosers - I use two of these, the small one to dose vinegar (currently offline, because I stopped dosing vinegar) and the faster one for my Avast kalk stirrer. I've been using these for years without issue. These require their own outlets, so with an Apex Jr., you may be limited on outlet space. But at least all four outlets are relays. You have to manually calibrate and do the math to figure out dosing, but it's easy enough. I'm going to continue using these without question. I've replaced the tubing, but again, that's the same on any pump. Simple to do here.

4. DOS - I use the DOS for automatic water change and love it. It's not silent at high volumes, so that may factor into your decision. The DOS operates at different speeds, the low speed is the same noise level as the BRS low speed doser, and the high speed is the same as the BRS high speed doser (roughly). If the tank is small, and your dose amounts are small, you will be fine. If you're looking to run the DOS at 100% capacity moving gallons of water a day, you're going to hear the pump and that may factor into it.

The interface is dead simple to program, as well as calibration etc. The hardest part about this is taking the time to refill my 55g new saltwater drum. My drain for the AWC is 12 feet high and 40 feet or so horizontal. I've tried various MJ pumps etc. and couldn't get the distance required to get to the laundry room. The DOS pushes that water, no problem.

As you're already on the Apex platform, I highly recommend this.

5. DDR - I don't have a need for the DDR based on my dosing scheme. In all reality, it's a cool piece of kit, but I can't personally justify the cost. There's plenty of other places I could dump that money into before I dropped that kind of cash. However, if you were to offer me one for free, I wouldn't say no... ;Playful

Salty1962 · Nov 3, 2017

If your budget allowed, I'd go with the DOS, I have. Able to control from one platform where ever you go with internet access!

fredjr · Nov 3, 2017

Salty1962 said:
If your budget allowed, I'd go with the DOS, I have. Able to control from one platform where ever you go with internet access!

Thanks

Bob Escher · Nov 3, 2017

I have the cheap Jabao doser have had it for two years have only been dosing NoPOX with it along with two part reef energy haven’t had any problems but as said above
Wish I had the bucks for two DOS but don’t don’t so we do what we do

fredjr · Nov 3, 2017

Bob Escher said:
I have the cheap Jabao doser have had it for two years have only been dosing NoPOX with it along with two part reef energy haven’t had any problems but as said above
Wish I had the bucks for two DOS but don’t don’t so we do what we do

I hear you. Lol

rkpetersen · Nov 5, 2017

I have two DOS units, stacked and mounted on the inside wall of my sump cabinet. They work well, for the most part. You do have to pay special attention and effort to making the tubing connections to the dosing heads as tight as possible, to avoid small air leaks.

Programming the DOS in Apex is also a breeze, as long as you don't overthink it. The wizard programming gives you dozens of tiny doses throughout the day and night. There is one small trick that is very useful though. If you're dosing equal amounts of alk and calc and the dosing tubes empty near each other, you might want to offset the time of one so that, for example, there's a dose of alk and then not a dose of calc until 10 minutes later. This is easily accomplished in the wizard by selecting Modify Interval of one of the DOS channels and then changing the start time.

Regarding the DDR, I think for many who like this kind of stuff, the big draw is the graphical display showing remaining fluid levels that appears on your Dashboard when you use it. Each 2l chamber also contains an optical sensor that tells the Apex when the fluid level is below a certain point. Contrary to what many may assume, the optical sensor has nothing to do with the remaining volume display on the dash; that information is just calculated from a starting point you give it and from what the DOS thinks it is dispensing, and this may or may not match what's actually in the container, depending on how well each pump is calibrated/functioning.

Also, the optical sensors on the DDR seem to fail with ridiculous frequency. One of mine just failed a few weeks ago, only 4 months in. I know people who've had them both fail, and people who've had one fail again after sending the whole unit in for repair. And your graphical display of the DDR on the Apex Dashboard disappears if either of those two sensors is actually missing. So if you just remove the dead one, you lose the whole thing.

It would actually be very easy to replace a failed sensor yourself - You can undo a small plastic triangle in the back of the unit, remove the connector of the failed sensor from a small simple triangular PCB, connect the new one, put it in the container and you're good to go. Two minutes, tops. And you don't have to move it or empty it out to do it, either.

That is, you could do this, but Neptune doesn't sell the part, they insist you send the whole DDR in for repair. However they will sell you an identical or virtually identical optical sensor with the wrong connector (it's for use with the FMK module.) I had a couple of these in my kit already (as I said, they fail), so I cut off the jack, wired the 4 lines to a Dupont connector (left to right: red-black-green-white), plugged that in and back in business. Or you could even just cut the connector off of the dead sensor and do a wire to wire connection.

Also, imo, using John Guest fittings for the connectors between the DDR and the tubing is less than ideal. These things often leak tiny bits of air under suction, even when properly cut and seated. I wound up applying a circle of ordinary clear bathroom silicone caulk around each of mine, which stopped the leaks. When dry, the caulk can just be peeled off if necessary, without damage or residue.

fredjr · Nov 5, 2017

rkpetersen said:
I have two DOS units, stacked and mounted on the inside wall of my sump cabinet. They work well, for the most part. You do have to pay special attention and effort to making the tubing connections to the dosing heads as tight as possible, to avoid small air leaks.

Programming the DOS in Apex is also a breeze, as long as you don't overthink it. The wizard programming gives you dozens of tiny doses throughout the day and night. There is one small trick that is very useful though. If you're dosing equal amounts of alk and calc and the dosing tubes empty near each other, you might want to offset the time of one so that, for example, there's a dose of alk and then not a dose of calc until 10 minutes later. This is easily accomplished in the wizard by selecting Modify Interval of one of the DOS channels and then changing the start time.

Regarding the DDR, I think for many who like this kind of stuff, the big draw is the graphical display showing remaining fluid levels that appears on your Dashboard when you use it. Each 2l chamber also contains an optical sensor that tells the Apex when the fluid level is below a certain point. Contrary to what many may assume, the optical sensor has nothing to do with the remaining volume display on the dash; that information is just calculated from a starting point you give it and from what the DOS thinks it is dispensing, and this may or may not match what's actually in the container, depending on how well each pump is calibrated/functioning.

Also, the optical sensors on the DDR seem to fail with ridiculous frequency. One of mine just failed a few weeks ago, only 4 months in. I know people who've had them both fail, and people who've had one fail again after sending the whole unit in for repair. And your graphical display of the DDR on the Apex Dashboard disappears if either of those two sensors is actually missing. So if you just remove the dead one, you lose the whole thing.

It would actually be very easy to replace a failed sensor yourself - You can undo a small plastic triangle in the back of the unit, remove the connector of the failed sensor from a small simple triangular PCB, connect the new one, put it in the container and you're good to go. Two minutes, tops. And you don't have to move it or empty it out to do it, either.

That is, you could do this, but Neptune doesn't sell the part, they insist you send the whole DDR in for repair. However they will sell you an identical or virtually identical optical sensor with the wrong connector (it's for use with the FMK module.) I had a couple of these in my kit already (as I said, they fail), so I cut off the jack, wired the 4 lines to a Dupont connector (left to right: red-black-green-white), plugged that in and back in business. Or you could even just cut the connector off of the dead sensor and do a wire to wire connection.

Also, imo, using John Guest fittings for the connectors between the DDR and the tubing is less than ideal. These things often leak tiny bits of air under suction, even when properly cut and seated. I wound up applying a circle of ordinary clear bathroom silicone caulk around each of mine, which stopped the leaks. When dry, the caulk can just be peeled off if necessary, without damage or residue.