Looking for reasons for sudden RTN

[blueoverbrown]

I've lost a few corals lately. Whatever the issue is, it seems to affect only one coral at a time, with everything else looking happy while one of dying. It started with my purple Stylo, it started turning white and was completely dead all within about 18 hours. Next was my torch, which took even less time to fall apart and die. Then yesterday it was an expensive acro frag. Each of these losses were a few weeks apart, the tank is still full of happy coral including a few other acros. My parameters are:
Salinity 1.025
Nitrate 5
Phosphate 0.04
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Alk 9.3
Calcium 380
Magnesium 1320
Temp controlled to 77-79 F

I'm considering 3 possibilities when it comes to the loss of the acro frag yesterday
1. A magnesium swing. Yesterday morning, mag was 1200. I used the brs calculator to raise mag by 50. For some reason it went up by 120. This obviously wouldn't explain my previous losses.
2. I moved the rack that the frag was sitting on up higher yesterday morning into higher light and almost direct flow from a power head. It didn't seem to upset the other 4 acros sitting on the rack. This wouldn't explain my previous losses either.
3. I have a weird issue that may be hard to explain on here. My sump has a little section I think is meant to be an emergency overflow. The baffle has a crack and water slowly leaks into this section until it's even with the water level in the sump. I'm trying to fix it. The water in here stagnates and gets a little brown and stinky after a while, I clean it out with every water change, every two weeks. Is this a bacterial breeding ground that could be causing my problems?

Any thoughts on which of these things (or other things) could cause such rapid loss?

 

[Naso180!]

Not clear on the sump section you mean but get the idea. Id say this is the issue. Any dead areas like that are certainly growing all sorts of microbes and could be detrimental to many of yhe inhabitants. Id either try to refresh that section daily some how or add a small pump to the part of the sump to keep the water from becoming stagnant.

 

[bubbgee]

Magnesium swings do not affect SPS (at least in my experience). Light and Flow and maybe zero nutrients swings will.

Abnormal alk and salinity swings will also affect it. pH reaching below 7.7 will also melt it. Any particular instability occurring outside of magnesium?

 

[allof fish]

I agree magnesium won’t affect those corals. When my drops I don’t even measure and just pour some in. Could be bacterial or worms. Have you checked for flatworms at all. Nutrients also a bit low if bump them up a little maybe do a good water change too

 

[blueoverbrown]

Not clear on the sump section you mean but get the idea. Id say this is the issue. Any dead areas like that are certainly growing all sorts of microbes and could be detrimental to many of yhe inhabitants. Id either try to refresh that section daily some how or add a small pump to the part of the sump to keep the water from becoming stagnant.

The pump idea hadn't crossed my mind, thanks!

 

[blueoverbrown]

Magnesium swings do not affect SPS (at least in my experience). Light and Flow and maybe zero nutrients swings will.

Abnormal alk and salinity swings will also affect it. pH reaching below 7.7 will also melt it. Any particular instability occurring outside of magnesium?

Nothing that is apparent. Everything is on a dosing pump and I'm testing 1-2 times a week for everything. Looks like I may be looking at a bacterial issue.

 

[blueoverbrown]

I agree magnesium won’t affect those corals. When my drops I don’t even measure and just pour some in. Could be bacterial or worms. Have you checked for flatworms at all. Nutrients also a bit low if bump them up a little maybe do a good water change too

I don't think it's flatworms, I don't see anything strange on the frags. What kind of nutrient levels do you like to see for sps? The advice I'm seeing online varies widely

 

[bubbgee]

I don't think it's flatworms, I don't see anything strange on the frags. What kind of nutrient levels do you like to see for sps? The advice I'm seeing online varies widely

I was losing frags out of the blue the past few months and did not account for flatworms. Originally I thought it's a bacterial problem. When I gave away an SPS frag, my friend dipped and a flatworm came off. I still cant identify an aefw but I know it's in the tank now after that.

I dipped everything in KCL and blow the sps colonies and frags at night. I just started dosing KZ Flatworm stop and Coral Booster. Hopefully that solves my issue but at least I know what I am up against instead of guessing.

Basically, don't rule it out like I did, I would've been able to save more of my expensive frags that way.

 

[blueoverbrown]

Magnesium swings do not affect SPS (at least in my experience). Light and Flow and maybe zero nutrients swings will.

Abnormal alk and salinity swings will also affect it. pH reaching below 7.7 will also melt it. Any particular instability occurring outside of magnesium?

My ph varies between 8.2 in the evening and 7.9 in the morning. Maybe increasing the flow was my mistake

 

[blueoverbrown]

I don't think it's flatworms, I don't see anything strange on the frags. What kind of nutrient levels do you like to see for sps? The advice I'm seeing online varies widely

I was losing frags out of the blue the past few months and did not account for flatworms. Originally I thought it's a bacterial problem. When I gave away an SPS frag, my friend dipped and a flatworm came off. I still cant identify an aefw but I know it's in the tank now after that.

I dipped everything in KCL and blow the sps colonies and frags at night. I just started dosing KZ Flatworm stop and Coral Booster. Hopefully that solves my issue but at least I know what I am up against instead of guessing.

Basically, don't rule it out like I did, I would've been able to save more of my expensive frags that way.

I still have 4 acropora frags on the rack. Do you suggest a dip just to see? I am of course afraid of stressing them out, they haven't really colored up fully yet

 

[allof fish]

I don't think it's flatworms, I don't see anything strange on the frags. What kind of nutrient levels do you like to see for sps? The advice I'm seeing online varies widely

I personally like my nitrates between 10-15 and phosphate.05 -.1. If it runs a little higher it’s okay but then won’t feed for a week or so. Like today nitrate was 9 and phosphate was .14 little high but I added reef roids yesterday since they were too low for my liking I’ll just let them come down on own. I find the color is better for sps in those ranges and they do need nutrients. Some people has success with a little lower some with much higher but I don’t want them bottoming out

 

[blueoverbrown]

I don't think it's flatworms, I don't see anything strange on the frags. What kind of nutrient levels do you like to see for sps? The advice I'm seeing online varies widely

I personally like my nitrates between 10-15 and phosphate.05 -.1. If it runs a little higher it’s okay but then won’t feed for a week or so. Like today nitrate was 9 and phosphate was .14 little high but I added reef roids yesterday since they were too low for my liking I’ll just let them come down on own. I find the color is better for sps in those ranges and they do need nutrients. Some people has success with a little lower some with much higher but I don’t want them bottoming out

My refugium might be working a little too well. I'm already dosing neo nitro daily because of I don't nitrates are always zero. I may have to make some adjustments

 

[bubbgee]

My ph varies between 8.2 in the evening and 7.9 in the morning. Maybe increasing the flow was my mistake

Not necessarily unless it’s too strong and it’s stressed by some other issue.

 

[mcarroll]

I've lost a few corals lately. Whatever the issue is, it seems to affect only one coral at a time, with everything else looking happy while one of dying. It started with my purple Stylo, it started turning white and was completely dead all within about 18 hours. Next was my torch, which took even less time to fall apart and die. Then yesterday it was an expensive acro frag. Each of these losses were a few weeks apart, the tank is still full of happy coral including a few other acros.

How old is the tank?

How old were the three now-dead corals?

My parameters are:
Salinity 1.025
Nitrate 5
Phosphate 0.04
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Alk 9.3
Calcium 380
Magnesium 1320
Temp controlled to 77-79 F

PO4 is borderline and IMO this is the most suspect item so far. Water changes or other minor variances could have po4 being inaccessible to some corals....and it's bad news when that happens. I will say a colonies folding overnight seems pretty severe though.

Target ≥ 0.10 ppm for PO4 and ≥ 5 ppm for NO3.

I'm considering 3 possibilities when it comes to the loss of the acro frag yesterday
1. A magnesium swing. Yesterday morning, mag was 1200. I used the brs calculator to raise mag by 50. For some reason it went up by 120. This obviously wouldn't explain my previous losses.

No. Magnesium is not limiting even when beneath natural levels.

2. I moved the rack that the frag was sitting on up higher yesterday morning into higher light and almost direct flow from a power head. It didn't seem to upset the other 4 acros sitting on the rack. This wouldn't explain my previous losses either.

Unless you have other ideas what might be the cause, I wouldn't discount your best guess. Changes in flow and light are significant and generally to be avoided.

3. I have a weird issue that may be hard to explain on here. My sump has a little section I think is meant to be an emergency overflow. The baffle has a crack and water slowly leaks into this section until it's even with the water level in the sump. I'm trying to fix it. The water in here stagnates and gets a little brown and stinky after a while, I clean it out with every water change, every two weeks. Is this a bacterial breeding ground that could be causing my problems?

Regular water changes are to be avoided unless you have a high nutrient situation you are trying to remedy. There is a real danger of bottoming out nutrients....not good in general, but especially not for frags.

Avoid doing water changes or other "extras" to lower nutrients while levels are so low. (Eg. no carbon dosing, no mechanical filtration or extra bio-filtration, etc.)

I would avoid flushing the stink water into the display tank, and get that crack fixed (or get a better tank) – but I kinda doubt this is related to the coral issues. (Maybe post a pic of the problem area if it would help explain what's going on?)

 

[blueoverbrown]

I've lost a few corals lately. Whatever the issue is, it seems to affect only one coral at a time, with everything else looking happy while one of dying. It started with my purple Stylo, it started turning white and was completely dead all within about 18 hours. Next was my torch, which took even less time to fall apart and die. Then yesterday it was an expensive acro frag. Each of these losses were a few weeks apart, the tank is still full of happy coral including a few other acros.

How old is the tank?

How old were the three now-dead corals?

My parameters are:
Salinity 1.025
Nitrate 5
Phosphate 0.04
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Alk 9.3
Calcium 380
Magnesium 1320
Temp controlled to 77-79 F

PO4 is borderline and IMO this is the most suspect item so far. Water changes or other minor variances could have po4 being inaccessible to some corals....and it's bad news when that happens. I will say a colonies folding overnight seems pretty severe though.

Target ≥ 0.10 ppm for PO4 and ≥ 5 ppm for NO3.

I'm considering 3 possibilities when it comes to the loss of the acro frag yesterday
1. A magnesium swing. Yesterday morning, mag was 1200. I used the brs calculator to raise mag by 50. For some reason it went up by 120. This obviously wouldn't explain my previous losses.

No. Magnesium is not limiting even when beneath natural levels.

2. I moved the rack that the frag was sitting on up higher yesterday morning into higher light and almost direct flow from a power head. It didn't seem to upset the other 4 acros sitting on the rack. This wouldn't explain my previous losses either.

Unless you have other ideas what might be the cause, I wouldn't discount your best guess. Changes in flow and light are significant and generally to be avoided.

3. I have a weird issue that may be hard to explain on here. My sump has a little section I think is meant to be an emergency overflow. The baffle has a crack and water slowly leaks into this section until it's even with the water level in the sump. I'm trying to fix it. The water in here stagnates and gets a little brown and stinky after a while, I clean it out with every water change, every two weeks. Is this a bacterial breeding ground that could be causing my problems?

Regular water changes are to be avoided unless you have a high nutrient situation you are trying to remedy. There is a real danger of bottoming out nutrients....not good in general, but especially not for frags.

Avoid doing water changes or other "extras" to lower nutrients while levels are so low. (Eg. no carbon dosing, no mechanical filtration or extra bio-filtration, etc.)

I would avoid flushing the stink water into the display tank, and get that crack fixed (or get a better tank) – but I kinda doubt this is related to the coral issues. (Maybe post a pic of the problem area if it would help explain what's going on?)

I've had the tank for over a year, but I believe the previous owner had it up and running for years, all sand and rock were kept live when I brought it home.

My first death was a Stylo I had for about 9 months. It was growing slow but looked great

The most recent acro death was a frag I've only had for two weeks. I was slowly acclimating it on a frag rack, raising it every few days

I will try raising phosphate by turning down the intensity of my refugium light first.

 

[mcarroll]

I will try raising phosphate by turning down the intensity of my refugium light first.

IMO that's heading in the right direction – frags generally need dissolved nutrients. Flow is a big requirement in getting dissolved nutrients to corals tho.....higher nutrient levels can offset areas of "sub optimal flow" to a good degree. (Areas of suboptimal flow are unavoidable, corals even create them as they grow out.)

I don't know if I missed hearing about the refugium, but I'm remembering to ask now: do you run activated carbon? Running a little vs algae "exudates" isn't a bad policy since we have reason to be suspicious due to these corals getting snuffed out. Corals and algae are not really allies in nature – they are competitors. To compete, corals have hard skeletons; algae have chemistry. So running a small portion of activated carbon is a good insurance policy if you run a refugium IMO.

Or...depending on how much you use the refugium for other purposes, it seems like it doesn't make sense from a filtration point of view to keep it running, at least not the algae-growing part. It's for reducing nutrients in a high-nutrient tank, right? Yours is low nutrient, at least now. So the refugium is literally causing you extra maintenance in the nutrient testing/dosing, and it's on the suspects lists in the coral-murder investigation, both from a nutrient competition point of view but also for suspected use of chemical warfare. Funny, but not funny for your frags! :)