Low nutrient indicators?
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EmdeReef
2500 Club Member
Depends on a number of factors, burnt tips on sps are often a sign of high alk but low nutrients.
Unhappy LPS.
Cyano, dinos
TexasReefer82
Active Member
When my phosphate gets too low for a long period of time my acropora will suffer. They will get bleached and necrotic spots in the crotch between two older branches. New growth will typically look okay, seemingly at the expense of older tissue. Acropora will look pale in color overall - it seems that they use some Phosphate to manufacture their pigments.
Low nitrate, for me, manifests as poor overall coloration and pale colored corals. Especially the color green will pale and be washed out. Adequate nitrate can restore the intensity and depth of green pigmentation in a couple of weeks.
Low nitrate, for me, manifests as poor overall coloration and pale colored corals. Especially the color green will pale and be washed out. Adequate nitrate can restore the intensity and depth of green pigmentation in a couple of weeks.
Low nitrates have always shown themselves as very poor coloration but rarely death. Can be remedied very quickly ~ 14 days
Low phosphate has shown in the inability to generate tissue for either growth or repairs. Takes a long time to remedy ~ 28 days
Low phosphate has shown in the inability to generate tissue for either growth or repairs. Takes a long time to remedy ~ 28 days
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OneFish
Active Member
According to API both are very much 0.0 ppm. I know API isn’t the most reliable...
TexasReefer82
Active Member
Not sure what the limits of detection are for those tests. I use Salifert for nitrate and the Hanna ultra low range checker for phosphate.
I find that phosphate hangs around well enough in my tank as long as I don't have any bryopsis growing. Although I have dosex phosphate in the past when it was zero.
I have a nitrate solution on my dosing pump. I use the stump remover product from Lowe's. It's potassium nitrate, so it also adds potassium which is nice since my corals consume that too.
madweazl
2500 Club Member
Define low?
Apparently, higher alkalinity systems "require" higher levels but lower alkalinity levels in my experience can run low (i.e. measurable) nutrient levels or higher levels (10+ nitrates and .2+ phosphates) without issue. Since I've never maintained a higher alkalinity setup, I cant comment on that but alkalinity level between 6-8 dKh can easily sustain good coloration and growth with all the nutrient levels posted above. My opinion, the further you stray from natural sea water levels, the higher the likelihood of running into issues.
Apparently, higher alkalinity systems "require" higher levels but lower alkalinity levels in my experience can run low (i.e. measurable) nutrient levels or higher levels (10+ nitrates and .2+ phosphates) without issue. Since I've never maintained a higher alkalinity setup, I cant comment on that but alkalinity level between 6-8 dKh can easily sustain good coloration and growth with all the nutrient levels posted above. My opinion, the further you stray from natural sea water levels, the higher the likelihood of running into issues.
In my experience it can be a little strange dosing the required chemicals at first. You will find that you are dosing but nothing happens. I believe it is being taken up rapidly by the rock work, sand and livestock. It can take a while before you get measurable results but your corals should look better fairly soon.
When I do need to dose I add 2ppm KNO3 per day or 0.1ppm Trisodium Phosphate per day. Always spread throughout the day.
I have messed around before when I had Chaeto and dumped in 1ppm PO4, it was all gone within 24hrs.
When I do need to dose I add 2ppm KNO3 per day or 0.1ppm Trisodium Phosphate per day. Always spread throughout the day.
I have messed around before when I had Chaeto and dumped in 1ppm PO4, it was all gone within 24hrs.
Hemmdog
10K Club member
Some obvious indicators of nutrients are how fast algae grows on the glass. 2 days, 5 days, 7days in between cleanings. Most people I talk to tend to be 5 dayer’s and keep 10-25nitrate .03-.1 phos. Not sure if this helps lol.
madweazl
2500 Club Member
I clean daily at <1ppm nitrate and <.1ppm phosphate; this is a poor way to judge nutrient levels. I can do it every two to three days but there is noticeable growth on the glass.
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OneFish
Active Member
I am having color loss but still getting good growth on almost everything. Yesterday I turned off my skimmer and removed my Chemi-pure Blue bag. So now the only thing running is filter floss and a mechanical filter full of sponges. About 2 months ago my alkalinity was consistently at around 5.5 and since then I have raised it slowly to 8.1 (finally reached that yesterday), so an increase of ~2.5 in around 6-8 weeks. Temp was a little high at around 79, so I lowered that to around 76. I have started feeding my 2 fish (I would love to get more but I do not have a QT and am too nervous about my lovely clowns getting anything unwanted) twice a day, reef roids a few times a week, and Red Sea Energy a few times a week.
Alk. - 8.1
Ca. - 440
NO3 - o.o
PO4 - 0.0
pH - 7.95
Salinity - 1.026
For reference - my colors have started lacking since alkalinity has raised, but I needed to bring it up in order to expand my SPS collection from others' tanks. Growth has greatly increased though, both encrusting and branching. I am getting a sort of weird, white, furry-looking algae growth on the frag rack on overflow wall... not a lot, just enough for me (not my fiancé of course) to notice :D
Besides alkalinity, nothing in my tank has changed over the last six months except for changing my wavemakers to allow for a more random flow pattern.
Is this feeding and lack of filtration going to eventually boost my nutrients? Or do I need to start dosing something more powerful to overcome the bacteria consuming the nutrients that has built up over the years?
Alk. - 8.1
Ca. - 440
NO3 - o.o
PO4 - 0.0
pH - 7.95
Salinity - 1.026
For reference - my colors have started lacking since alkalinity has raised, but I needed to bring it up in order to expand my SPS collection from others' tanks. Growth has greatly increased though, both encrusting and branching. I am getting a sort of weird, white, furry-looking algae growth on the frag rack on overflow wall... not a lot, just enough for me (not my fiancé of course) to notice :D
Besides alkalinity, nothing in my tank has changed over the last six months except for changing my wavemakers to allow for a more random flow pattern.
Is this feeding and lack of filtration going to eventually boost my nutrients? Or do I need to start dosing something more powerful to overcome the bacteria consuming the nutrients that has built up over the years?
TexasReefer82
Active Member
How new/old is the tank?
If the tank is new it may take several months for nutrient levels to stabilize. If one was to conceptually perform a material balance (In-Out+Production-Consumption=Accumulation) on either Nitrogen or Phosphorus in a reef tank there would be many consumers and many producers and we'd be adding both elements as food and taking them both out with water changes and skimming. The consumers and producers include all life in the tank: fish, coral, algae, and microbes, etc. Especially the algae and all the species of microbes go through a long period in a new tank when their populations are fluctuating and finding steady state balance with all the other producers and consumers and available supply. Over time some find that regular addition of one or both of these nutrients is necessary while others find that they accumulate too much and they need to employ GFO or more water changes. Why do some people's tanks find a plateau at very low levels and others at relatively high levels is likely due to many factors.
For my own tank I attribute my nutrient paucity to the dried Pukani rock that I originally prepared via an acid bath followed by bleach and GFO treatment. I think that this process took an already very porous rock and made it even more so - facilitating excellent denitrification conditions within the rock. I don't know this as a fact, it's just speculation. Both my tanks naturally drive toward zero Nitrate if left on their own and the only common factor is the rock.
Feeding doesn't do it for me. I feed my fish very well nearly every day. I still need to dose nitrate. Phosphate is less problematic, however I dosed it early on when the tank was new and the rock itself was also likely acting as a phosphate sorbent. Once the rock became saturated then I could start managing the phosphate concentration more realistically.
If the tank is new it may take several months for nutrient levels to stabilize. If one was to conceptually perform a material balance (In-Out+Production-Consumption=Accumulation) on either Nitrogen or Phosphorus in a reef tank there would be many consumers and many producers and we'd be adding both elements as food and taking them both out with water changes and skimming. The consumers and producers include all life in the tank: fish, coral, algae, and microbes, etc. Especially the algae and all the species of microbes go through a long period in a new tank when their populations are fluctuating and finding steady state balance with all the other producers and consumers and available supply. Over time some find that regular addition of one or both of these nutrients is necessary while others find that they accumulate too much and they need to employ GFO or more water changes. Why do some people's tanks find a plateau at very low levels and others at relatively high levels is likely due to many factors.
For my own tank I attribute my nutrient paucity to the dried Pukani rock that I originally prepared via an acid bath followed by bleach and GFO treatment. I think that this process took an already very porous rock and made it even more so - facilitating excellent denitrification conditions within the rock. I don't know this as a fact, it's just speculation. Both my tanks naturally drive toward zero Nitrate if left on their own and the only common factor is the rock.
Feeding doesn't do it for me. I feed my fish very well nearly every day. I still need to dose nitrate. Phosphate is less problematic, however I dosed it early on when the tank was new and the rock itself was also likely acting as a phosphate sorbent. Once the rock became saturated then I could start managing the phosphate concentration more realistically.
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OneFish
Active Member
Great right up!
The tank is about 2 years old now, successfully keeping SPS for about 8-10 months seeing no deaths with new additions. A few SPS were stalled out but are now booming with slight color loss (YELLOW in the photos below) while others that were growing great, montis specifically, have lost a lot of color and stalled themselves (RED in the photos below).
I also used completely dried rock, though I did not treat it like you did - I just thoroughly scrubbed and sprayed with a hose, let dry in the sun, then soaked in RO for a couple weeks before cycling in the tank.
This photo is from May 13
This photo is from yesterday (June 1)
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