Low PH problems (7.2!!!)

[Kiara_Pyrenei]

Hello, I'm having real trouble with my PH

I currently have a tank finishing its cycle, and fish in a quarantine tank. I just got an electronic PH meter and was shocked to see that the PH in my QT tank is around 7.1-7.2!

The cycling tank is about the same, but i've read that tanks that are cycling can have low PH and Alk so i will try to wait that one out. But i'm worried about the QT tank.

It's been up for around 3 months now, and I have been having some problems with fish mortality (and snail mortality) in the QT tank, i wasn't sure of the cause but now I suspect that low PH might be the culprit? I have an acrylic lid with holes drilled in it, and I thought maybe it was inhibiting gas exchange, but even with it off it hasn't gone up significantly.

I tested the saltwater I just made (in a 10L bucket with a lid on it), and even that PH is lower than i'd like at 7.6, but at least that's not fatal.

I know dosing a buffer is just a bandaid solution but I'm not sure what else to do when the PH level is this dire. Anyone have any ideas of what might be going wrong and how to fix it?

Edit: Someone suggested testing Alk and that's ALSO very low at 5.2dKH. What is going on????

 

[piranhaman00]

That pH is not possible and it doesn’t matter anyhow in a QT. When I stopped caring about pH my reefing life got much better. Getting a correct pH can be difficult.

 

[Kiara_Pyrenei]

That pH is not possible and it doesn’t matter anyhow in a QT. When I stopped caring about pH my reefing life got much better. Getting a correct pH can be difficult.

I tested it using three different methods and they all read 7.2

Saying its "not possible" seems somewhat unhelpful. And obviously it matters if its that low since from what I understand that is highly unhealthy for fish.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I tested it using three different methods and they all read 7.2

Saying its "not possible" seems somewhat unhelpful. And obviously it matters if its that low since from what I understand that is highly unhealthy for fish.

How did you calibrate the pH meter?

 

[Kiara_Pyrenei]

How did you calibrate the pH meter?

It came with two different calibration solutions that I used to calibrate the meter. I also tested it with the salifert PH test and some tetra test strips. Pegged scale low on both.

 

[piranhaman00]

I tested it using three different methods and they all read 7.2

Saying its "not possible" seems somewhat unhelpful. And obviously it matters if its that low since from what I understand that is highly unhealthy for fish.

At a salinity of 35 ppt with 7.0dkh , actually no a pH of 7.2 is not possible unless you are dumping acid into the tank.

You are calibrating or testing wrong.

 

[Kiara_Pyrenei]

At a salinity of 35 ppt with 7.0dkh , actually no a pH of 7.2 is not possible unless you are dumping acid into the tank.

You are calibrating or testing wrong.

So i went and tested my alk which I hadn't on the QT tank ( i didn't think it was that important for the fish), and its ALSO very low, the Hana checker is showing 5.2dKH

Is that the cause of the low PH? What might be causing this extreme low alk/ph in the tank???

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I tested it using three different methods and they all read 7.2

lol

It's only not helpful if you do not believe it. If you believe it and act on it, it it potentially useful.

I personally also believe it is not accurate, even if you tried 767,431 different methods.

How are you measuring it?

I'd do these two things.

1. Raise the alk to 7-8 dKH with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or sodium carbonate (preferably the latter if you have it).

2. Do this aeration test:

pH and the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

by Randy Holmes-Farley For many aquarists, pH is not something that they have much experience with aside from their aquarium. For many, pH is almost a black box measurement: something to be considered, but whose physical meaning makes little sense to them. This article will Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

The Aeration Test

Some of the possible causes of low pH listed above require an effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure its pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. Its pH should rise if it is unusually low for the measured alkalinity (Figure 2). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If its pH also rises, then the aquarium’s pH will rise simply with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise in the cup (or rises very little) when aerating with indoor air, then that air likely contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should). Be careful implementing this test if the outside aeration test results in a large temperature change (more than 5°C or 10°F), because such changes alone impact pH measurements.

In your extreme case, any aeration with breathable air will raise the pH substantially. If it does not, the measurement is in error.

 

[piranhaman00]

What is the salinity?

 

[Kiara_Pyrenei]

What is the salinity?

1.024

 

[Lasse]

Do the aeration test as suggest by Randy.

I had seen pH down to 6,5 in normal salt water alkalinity (around 7 dKH). Its normal in transport bags (long transport > 24 H) and caused by excess CO2. You had a lid and if you do not have a skimmer in the QT (or other type of aeration) in the QT - there can be an excess of CO2 in the water. The test outlined by Randy help you to understand if the low reading is

1. If indoor air bring up the pH - excess of CO2 only in the water
2. If indoor air does not help but outdoor air does - excess of CO2 in the room causing excess CO2 in the water
3. If either 1 or 2 rise the pH - your problem is excess CO2

It is also helping to rise the dKH too - upp to around 7

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Kiara_Pyrenei]

Do the aeration test as suggest by Randy.

I had seen pH down to 6,5 in normal salt water alkalinity (around 7 dKH). Its normal in transport bags (long transport > 24 H) and caused by excess CO2. You had a lid and if you do not have a skimmer in the QT (or other type of aeration) in the QT - there can be an excess of CO2 in the water. The test outlined by Randy help you to understand if the low reading is

1. If indoor air bring up the pH - excess of CO2 only in the water
2. If indoor air does not help but outdoor air does - excess of CO2 in the room causing excess CO2 in the water
3. If either 1 or 2 rise the pH - your problem is excess CO2

It is also helping to rise the dKH too - upp to around 7

Sincerely Lasse

Yeah I've got the test in progress now, I'll report back once its done. Though, on my QT tank I have a waterfall style HOB filter, wavemaker, and air stone, so I'm not sure what more I could do for aeration besides taking off the lid which I've done.

How would be a way to raise the dKH? Is there a reason why it might become so low in a QT tank? I do regular water changes (about 20% a week just cuz that's my bucket size), so it feels strange to need to be dosing alk in a tank with only two fish in it

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How would be a way to raise the dKH?

I stated that in my direction #1.

Use this calculator:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Alk can drop for a variety of reasons, including consumption, accumulation of nitrate, and precipitation of calcium carbonate.

 

[Kiara_Pyrenei]

I stated that in my direction #1.

Use this calculator:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Alk can drop for a variety of reasons, including consumption, accumulation of nitrate, and precipitation of calcium carbonate.

Yeah, I have already bought the stuff to dose, I don't have it on hand so I had to order it.

I'm just trying to figure out the cause of such an extreme drop, since it seems like there must be some sort of root problem.

At the moment, only one Banggai and a cleaner shrimp in the tank, (had a flasher wrasse and a snail in there but lost them recently), Nitrates reading at 0. Is there anything else I can check to try and pin down the cause?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yeah, I have already bought the stuff to dose, I don't have it on hand so I had to order it.

I'm just trying to figure out the cause of such an extreme drop, since it seems like there must be some sort of root problem.

At the moment, only one Banggai in the tank, Nitrates reading at 0. Is there anything else I can check to try and pin down the cause?

I'm betting the root problem is test error, but the only other possibility for low pH is hugely excessive CO2 in the water.

Together, CO2 and alkalinity mathematically determine the pH. Hence the aeration test to determine sources and solutions to the CO2.

 

[Kiara_Pyrenei]

Okay, did the aeration test with outside air:

Before: 7.2
After: 7.6

So it definitely went up, but should I be worried that its still only at the bottom end of the safe levels for a reef tank?

At least it now matches my levels from my newly mixed water, which I went ahead and tested (I use the red sea blue bucket) and got these results with 1.026 salinity (at 78F):

PH 7.6
Alk 7.3

Not real happy with those either tbh.

Gonna try the test again with inside air now and see how it goes

 

[Saltysparky]

How are you checking salinity when mixing salt? I would double check with a refractometer if you are using a digital method.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Okay, did the aeration test with outside air:

Before: 7.2
After: 7.6

So it definitely went up, but should I be worried that its still only at the bottom end of the safe levels for a reef tank?

At least it now matches my levels from my newly mixed water, which I went ahead and tested (I use the red sea blue bucket) and got these results with 1.026 salinity (at 78F):

PH 7.6
Alk 7.3

Not real happy with those either tbh.

Gonna try the test again with inside air now and see how it goes

How long did you aerate? Does that pH reflect an alk addition too? of what?

Since pH is still so low, if the aeration was complete, then the test is incorrect. it should be above 8.0, and your pH is not likely that low.

Do the indoor portion as well.

 

[Kiara_Pyrenei]

How are you checking salinity when mixing salt? I would double check with a refractometer if you are using a digital method.

I use a refractometer.

 

[Kiara_Pyrenei]

How long did you aerate? Does that pH reflect an alk addition too? of what?

Since pH is still so low, if the aeration was complete, then the test is incorrect. it should be above 8.0, and your pH is not likely that low.

Do the indoor portion as well.

I aerated for an hour. I didn't add anything to the water (as I said, i dont have anything on hand)

Indoor portion in progress now. The initial PH from the tank is higher though (possibly because of the window being open next to it)

If the testing via all 3 methods is incorrect, what should I do? What is the most reliable way to measure PH? I do feel like it should be reading higher, since even my newly mixed water is only testing at 7.6, when red sea says it should mix (without aeration) to 8.2 or more

I'm a newbie and this is stressing me out, im trying to find out why things are dying in my QT tank :C