MACNA Cancelled?

[rtparty]

None here. They sell before they come in.


Useless statement without numbers and sources.

I’m not naming my sources but I promise they’re better than yours ;)

 

[Bob Weigant]

I have to admit I rarely go to shows. I attended an IMAC many years ago on the Queen Mary in Long Beach CA. It was a cool getaway for the weekend. Every now and then I go the Coral Farmers Market but those are more smaller events

 

[Doctorgori]

I don’t really do shows but disappointing news anyway,
….from the wording it sounds like the towel has been thrown

 

[acro.jordan]

Sales at shows are down. The hobby is doing better than ever. It's booming. If anything we are only seeing less new people enter as rising prices and stagnating wages conspire to make this a rich man's game only. But people actually buying livestock are buying more than ever.

Just... I wasn't going to buy anything alive at MACNA anyway. I would have to fly it home somehow. We have a yearly local frag swap that scratches that itch. You just need to live closer to a big city.

Not just sales at shows, online sales at down too, the economy is in the dumps and people can’t spend money on reefing like they used to ! Not to mention all the hobbysists here on r2r that give corals out practically for free …. Meanwhile actual vendors are trying to sell said corals to make a living, it’s all messed up.

 

[knockout]

Personally I think they are toast, REEFAPALOOZA and ReefStock are identical shows, too much of the same vendors and overpriced livestock, have a friend in the business who has a booth in these shows and has to spend nearly $10K in travel and booth expenses before he makes the first sale, he is reconsidering if this is worth the effort anymore, so the prices have to get jacked for these shows, the hobbie is stagnant in research and development of new exiting gadgets so for me there is little to see anymore, went to RAP last year, no planning on it this year, I'll drive about 2 to 3 hours for a local swap instead.

 

[acro.jordan]

Personally I think they are toast, REEFAPALOOZA and ReefStock are identical shows, too much of the same vendors and overpriced livestock, have a friend in the business who has a booth in these shows and has to spend nearly $10K in travel and booth expenses before he makes the first sale, he is reconsidering if this is worth the effort anymore, so the prices have to get jacked for these shows, the hobbie is stagnant in research and development of new exiting gadgets so for me there is little to see anymore, went to RAP last year, no planning on it this year, I'll drive about 2 to 3 hours for a local swap instead.

The hobby is toast (for vendors) we are in the age of aquarists now.

 

[MikeSF]

Another reason vendors charge so much is table fees and transportation expenses. To have a table at Aquashella Chicago for example, it is $850. Plus lodging and transportation. So yeah, frags won’t be cheap at the big shows. The vendors are already ~$1300 in the hole when they start, and have two days to come out ahead. That’s a high end example, but something to consider for all shows.

The other angle on that is person showing up will have to stake out a bunch of money too, just to basically be there, while it doesn't cost anywhere near $850 to be there in the building if you add in airfare and hotel stay (especially at a Disney hotel) it very well could be more than $850, now locals are a different matter mind you. It really comes down to "yanno what, I can shop online and have things shipped" which yeah is a far cry from seeing something in person, and trying to "shop for deals" but it is the reality of things I don't want to drop that chunk of change just for the "honor" of buying high priced corals that as you said probably won't be cheap.

And now we know what this show died

 

[lbacha]

The reef world isn’t the only place this is happening, the rare plant scene is just as bad. The issue is an over saturation of shows and vendors. Everyone jumped on the bandwagon during Covid seeing reefing as a way to make a living which meant the need for more shows so they could sell their corals and goods (the rare plant hobby did the same thing where everyone became a seller) this wasn’t sustainable once the stay at home covid hobby bump was over. I miss the days of combining funds to get a shipment from Indonesia and then growing out the corals with friends and sharing (not selling) frags of those corals.

Seeing MACNA go is a shame, I went to both shows in Cleveland back in the early 90’s and they were a great time and the first shows I ever attended.

Just some thoughts from an old reefer and rare plant collector.

 

[Mickey]

Personally, I never went to MACNA for bargains. Rather I wanted to talk with some vendors, meet fellow reefers, especially folks I follow online, reconnect with friends, and learn something through the lectures. I, for one, will miss all that quite a lot.

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

Sales at shows are down. The hobby is doing better than ever. It's booming. If anything we are only seeing less new people enter as rising prices and stagnating wages conspire to make this a rich man's game only. But people actually buying livestock are buying more than ever.

Just... I wasn't going to buy anything alive at MACNA anyway. I would have to fly it home somehow. We have a yearly local frag swap that scratches that itch. You just need to live closer to a big city.

I’m a not so certain this is true now. 8 months ago? Yes.

 

[DHill6]

The reef world isn’t the only place this is happening, the rare plant scene is just as bad. The issue is an over saturation of shows and vendors. Everyone jumped on the bandwagon during Covid seeing reefing as a way to make a living which meant the need for more shows so they could sell their corals and goods (the rare plant hobby did the same thing where everyone became a seller) this wasn’t sustainable once the stay at home covid hobby bump was over. I miss the days of combining funds to get a shipment from Indonesia and then growing out the corals with friends and sharing (not selling) frags of those corals.

Seeing MACNA go is a shame, I went to both shows in Cleveland back in the early 90’s and they were a great time and the first shows I ever attended.

Just some thoughts from an old reefer and rare plant collector.

What rare plants ?

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

I heard that inflation wasn’t that bad?
Same voice saying that the climate is going to hell.
I don’t know what to think about what I keep hearing except that the truth seems to be rare again.

Inflation has been rough and climate is also going to hell.

 

[lbacha]

What rare plants ?

Too many to list lol

 

[KrisReef]

Too many to list lol

A complete list or it didn't happen? :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

Out here in California the only rare plants people are interested in are something the grow called "Strains?"

 

[DHill6]

Too many to list lol

Orchids, Monstera, philodendrons, ferns
There’s a lot in that photo.

 

[Braver69]

That is a shame for MACNA, only ever went to one, and that was in Denver. Was a great place to see new stuff and learn about the hobby. Quite a few conventions were hit hard by the COVID pandemic and just never recovered or became a shell of their former selves.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

I am sure ReefBuilders announcing ReefStock as one week before MACNA didn't help things

 

[Eric R.]

I think what made MACNA and MASNA different is that they are a non-profit a focus on education and supporting the hobby in becoming more ethical and sustainable. Or at least that was the stated mission. I think it says something that people are more familiar with the conference (MACNA) than they are with the organization (MASNA).

But I think after Covid, with the effort to bring MACNA back, and without the old president who had previously spent a ton of time organizing shows, the folks organizing for MACNA saw what all the other shows were doing and just tried to copy them, instead of prioritizing what made MACNA unique and successful - a place for even experienced reefers to learn from the top hobbyists, and sometimes scientists adjacent to or involved with the hobby, a place to meet with friends, and maybe get a sneak peak at the reveal of upcoming new gear.

Old MACNA talks on youtube are still the place to get some of the best advice on things in the hobby, and there are only a handful of years worth of talks up there.

I think now more than ever, there's a need for an organization like MASNA that is not driven by having to sell more things, but is focused on education and sustainability of the hobby. But that requires the hobby to support it, and people with a vision and time to step up and lead it. We'll see if that happens.

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

None here. They sell before they come in.


Useless statement without numbers and sources.

Anecdotal but 16 months ago we had 2 big box stores and 4 boutique reef shops servicing my area.

1 of the big box stores shut down their marine side months ago, another just announced they are converting their marine section to planted tanks.
2 of the 4 boutique shops are shut down or actively looking for new ownership.
1 of the 4 boutique shops has moved to basement only and massively downsized.

This isn't a market survey, but I also wouldn't expect to see this kind of contraction in a stable or growing market. I am down from 6 stores to 1, and the online shops seem to be blowing out inventory like crazy right now.

Seen it happen a few times in the last 20 years, but I missed the COVID boom in the hobby and I am guessing it was insane, and now we're heading back towards equilibrium? Maybe a healthy correction for the long term, we all hope.

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

Not just sales at shows, online sales at down too, the economy is in the dumps and people can’t spend money on reefing like they used to ! Not to mention all the hobbysists here on r2r that give corals out practically for free …. Meanwhile actual vendors are trying to sell said corals to make a living, it’s all messed up.

Nothing wrong with that - most of us long timers have always been more interested in frag swaps and giving frags away to other hobbyists!