MACNA Cancelled?

[Js.Aqua.Project]

I went to the Orlando MACNA in 2019 and really liked its format over RAP and other shows with its emphasis on education. Yes, they had a show floor, but they had multiple speakers that were going non-stop all weekend. I had to make a schedule so that I could attend all of the presenters I wanted to while still making time to shop the floor.

 

[acro.jordan]

Nothing wrong with that - most of us long timers have always been more interested in frag swaps and giving frags away to other hobbyists!

Nothing wrong with it until the very shops you originally acquired those corals from end up closing because they can no longer pay bills. As soon as the shops close we will no longer have access to NEW imported corals (most of us). Inflation , supply and demand, and other factors will likely increase cost of said corals considering there are no longer shops. And the hobby as we know it becomes a luxury, that’s the bigger picture here .. nothing wrong with it until there is something wrong with it.

 

[Cell]

Not just sales at shows, online sales at down too, the economy is in the dumps and people can’t spend money on reefing like they used to !

The Twin Cities metro area had 2 good SW LFS's and one of them just abruptly closed down and is for sale. Bummer for sure. Hobbies get cut back first in difficult financial times.

 

[acro.jordan]

The Twin Cities metro area had 2 good SW LFS's and one of them just abruptly closed down and is for sale. Bummer for sure. Hobbies get cut back first in difficult financial times.

You see ICP ANALYSIS just closed their doors today too?

 

[GARRIGA]

Not just sales at shows, online sales at down too, the economy is in the dumps and people can’t spend money on reefing like they used to ! Not to mention all the hobbysists here on r2r that give corals out practically for free …. Meanwhile actual vendors are trying to sell said corals to make a living, it’s all messed up.

Vended a reptile show this weekend. People just don't have cash beyond necessities. Granted I'm selling $1,000 to $6,500 but my clientele tends to be not the type strapped by pay check to pay check and yet they too are now feeling the pinch. None complained about the prices, either. Just truthful with the fact their rent more important and I don't sell pets. Small percentage are seeking investments and now that's also on hold.

 

[acro.jordan]

Vended a reptile show this weekend. People just don't have cash beyond necessities. Granted I'm selling $1,000 to $6,500 but my clientele tends to be not the type strapped by pay check to pay check and yet they too are now feeling the pinch. None complained about the prices, either. Just truthful with the fact their rent more important and I don't sell pets. Small percentage are seeking investments and now that's also on hold.

Man … don’t even get me started on my entire desert ghost clown collection…. lol!!

 

[GARRIGA]

Man … don’t even get me started on my entire desert ghost clown collection…. lol!!

Been scratching my head about the Ball craze since 08. No clue how you guys make money considering all the competition. I'm one of the few remaining Boa breeders. Seems crested geckos however taking over :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:

 

[tzabor10]

Too bad. I see RAPNY also cut back their VIP event for Friday.

 

[acro.jordan]

Been scratching my head about the Ball craze since 08. No clue how you guys make money considering all the competition. I'm one of the few remaining Boa breeders. Seems crested geckos however taking over :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:

After breedings BPs for years I have come to realize 2 very important things;

1) the breeders that have been at the top, will continue to be at the top. (Read that again)

2) it may take years and years until you break even or see profit, unless you have a large lump sum of cash to invest up front AND know what you’re buying.

Half of that industry is finding the coolest new python morph and producing it for years before it even hits the market.. At this point my best ROIs are found in the stock market…. Lowering my livestock spending while increasing my portfolio.

 

[Opus]

Dang Melev and MARCNA putting them out of business. JK. I always wanted to attend a MACNA, but unfortunately I have been unable to talk my wife and daughter into taking our yearly vacation to a aquarium conference. Maybe some day.

I've always wanted to make a vacation out of it and the wife has always supported the idea (she loves to travel). Unfortunately they always have had it in September making it impossible for families with kids in school to make it a vacation. Also, my wife is a teacher so she can't take off at that time either.

 

[GARRIGA]

After breedings BPs for years I have come to realize 2 very important things;

1) the breeders that have been at the top, will continue to be at the top. (Read that again)

2) it may take years and years until you break even or see profit, unless you have a large lump sum of cash to invest up front AND know what you’re buying.

Half of that industry is finding the coolest new python morph and producing it for years before it even hits the market.. At this point my best ROIs are found in the stock market…. Lowering my livestock spending while increasing my portfolio.

Pyramid scheme being one needs to introduce a morph to profit. Why I stopped chasing new projects decade plus ago and now focus on polygenic traits to offer something new that can still be profitable to the buyer.

Kevin from NERD first to figure out you get something new and breed it to every other morph so that 8 years later you introduce and have no competition for years and that project now sells for peanuts.

Breeding snakes reminds me of these shows with frags and their high prices. Likely many buy that $500 one inch frag with hopes of making millions to only find out later market is already saturated and now need to buy the next new new hoping that’s the lotto ticket. No way to make money there except for those introducing and having a large enough and varied inventory so they can sell not just that one frag but several others which are what pay the rent.

Trading the market easier

 

[Opus]

Another reason vendors charge so much is table fees and transportation expenses. To have a table at Aquashella Chicago for example, it is $850. Plus lodging and transportation. So yeah, frags won’t be cheap at the big shows. The vendors are already ~$1300 in the hole when they start, and have two days to come out ahead. That’s a high end example, but something to consider for all shows.

While that is true, I find our local shows are charging the same. Even the ones that do our local show and shell out the money for the big show, I'm seeing the same prices. May be just our local market and set of local vendors.

 

[Opus]

True, lots of shows now too. Even in the summer. I was speaking of Aquashella Chicago. But maybe it will fill up.

Aquashella is an outlier because they also have the freshwater side. Not sure of other locations, but at the Dallas show I bet 75%+ of the attendees are freshwater. The freshwater business seems to really be booming. I assume that is why BRS and a couple of the other larger online retailers that have been mostly salt have now added a large freshwater selection.

 

[saltytanked]

Aquashella is an outlier because they also have the freshwater side. Not sure of other locations, but at the Dallas show I bet 75%+ of the attendees are freshwater. The freshwater business seems to really be booming. I assume that is why BRS and a couple of the other larger online retailers that have been mostly salt have now added a large freshwater selection.

Freshwater is easy and cheap. That’s why it has a much bigger market share.

 

[Reefer Matt]

While that is true, I find our local shows are charging the same. Even the ones that do our local show and shell out the money for the big show, I'm seeing the same prices. May be just our local market and set of local vendors.

Oh, for sure. I’m a vendor myself, but I have no overhead. Just a “hobbyist” business, I guess. But I aquaculture all my coral and sell as low as I can. I just do it to see the Reefers and maybe make enough to buy a piece of equipment or something. But some vendors are trying to pay their bills, and I bet they charge a lot of their livestock on credit as well. All I know is that at the end of the show, they don’t want to bring it back. So that’s the best time to strike some deals.

 

[Opus]

A lot of fb groups and “waffles” too.

I think the garage sellers have killed the frag swaps around my area. We had a local freshwater show a few months back and also a local frag swap the same day. Since I'm into both, I decided to do both. Went to the freshwater show at the hotel where it was being hosted and couldn't find a parking spot. Even if I had, there was a line of 50+ people out the door. After driving around for a few minutes I decided to just go on to the frag swap. Got there and it was almost completely empty. There were almost as many vendors as attendees. We have probably 5 or 6 people selling out of their garage and they seem to do very well. One of them posts a thank you each week with a picture of all the boxes of coral he is shipping out that day. It is amazing the cost that gets added to the product for a full fledged store. We have one that does mainly fish and his prices are half of what I would pay at a LFS.

 

[rtparty]

Aquashella is an outlier because they also have the freshwater side. Not sure of other locations, but at the Dallas show I bet 75%+ of the attendees are freshwater. The freshwater business seems to really be booming. I assume that is why BRS and a couple of the other larger online retailers that have been mostly salt have now added a large freshwater selection.

FW dwarves the SW side but FW is extremely cheap and they won’t spend money on good equipment. I talked to my fair share of SW vendors at Aquashella Dallas and sounded like many won’t be supporting them going forward. The FW crowd wants the $12 Amazon special and that’s it. They don’t care about the quality and reliability nearly as much as “we” do.

 

[Opus]

Oh, for sure. I’m a vendor myself, but I have no overhead. Just a “hobbyist” business, I guess. But I aquaculture all my coral and sell as low as I can. I just do it to see the Reefers and maybe make enough to buy a piece of equipment or something. But some vendors are trying to pay their bills, and I bet they charge a lot of their livestock on credit as well. All I know is that at the end of the show, they don’t want to bring it back. So that’s the best time to strike some deals.

I guess I'm trying for the wrong coral then. I've been told by more than one vendor near the end of a show that they would rather pack it up than make a deal.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I think the garage sellers have killed the frag swaps around my area. We had a local freshwater show a few months back and also a local frag swap the same day. Since I'm into both, I decided to do both. Went to the freshwater show at the hotel where it was being hosted and couldn't find a parking spot. Even if I had, there was a line of 50+ people out the door. After driving around for a few minutes I decided to just go on to the frag swap. Got there and it was almost completely empty. There were almost as many vendors as attendees. We have probably 5 or 6 people selling out of their garage and they seem to do very well. One of them posts a thank you each week with a picture of all the boxes of coral he is shipping out that day. It is amazing the cost that gets added to the product for a full fledged store. We have one that does mainly fish and his prices are half of what I would pay at a LFS.

Absolutely. I always support those in my area that took that leap of faith to open a store also. I have one I regularly trade and buy things from, even when I don’t need anything. I also know how the dominos can fall without the lfs around.

 

[Opus]

Freshwater is easy and cheap. That’s why it has a much bigger market share.

Wish I had that issue. I'm the one paying $200 for a pleco.