Mangrove growth rate

[Gregg @ ADP]

(I originally posted this in the mangrove thread, but maybe this will get more exposure)

What kind of growth rate do you typically see with mangroves?

I have 6 mangroves that I have planted in a small ‘lagoon’ tank in my classroom. In a month and a half, I have not seen any growth or even change in the plants.

Tank water is @ 1.024sg, and keep it at ~78F. While the tank itself has only been running for 2 months, it was made using sand and live rock from other seasoned tanks (complete with detritus, worms, etc). The tank is near south facing windows, and on sunny days, I would say the mangroves get about 2.5-3.5 hrs of direct sunlight, and another 5 hours of decent indirect light.

The system is sort of a modification of an under-gravel filter, designed that way solely to increase flow of nutrients over roots of mangroves and turtle grass. I will also be adding depth to the bed so that I can a) have some anaerobic NO3 reduction, and b)(hopefully) allow the CO2/carbonic acid to break down some of the aragonite and provide calcium and carbonate. Between the sand and the larger crushed coral pieces, I laid down a ~1.5” layer of Miracle Mud to provide iron.

The idea is that this lagoon system will serve as the sole filtration for a reef that I will connect to it. Once I add depth to the bed (using sand and detritus collected from H2O changes on other tanks), the water level will go up to the top of the tank.

The leaves feel soft (one leaf on one plant is a little bit tough feeling), but those mangroves have not budged an inch. The bio-mass of the system is low, but I’ve been pumping nutrients up in hopes of getting stuff going. The turtle grass is growing a little. Really not much in the way of algae growth. I’m sure the nutrient level is probably on the low side.

Thoughts?

 

[blaxsun]

Bump.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

These stupid things have hardly grown. I added substrate and replanted them shallower. A little bit of new root growth, but clearly not enough to get them to do anything.

It’s pretty clear now that I should have acclimated them to full saltwater. But, at 2 months in, we’re at the point that they’re just going to have to adjust. If they’re not dying, there is no point in changing anything now.

 

[jeffww]

They are outdoor trees. You wouldn’t expect to grow a pine tree on your window sill would you? Even then, trees grow slowly in general. From seed, some could take 2-3 years to get pencil thick stems and thats with good light and fertilizers. I would not expect more from a tropical tree that grows in full sunlight. Basically, what I’m saying is to not expect anything spectacular without stronger, full direct sublight and regular fertilizer from fish waste or artificial…

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

These stupid things have hardly grown. I added substrate and replanted them shallower. A little bit of new root growth, but clearly not enough to get them to do anything.

It’s pretty clear now that I should have acclimated them to full saltwater. But, at 2 months in, we’re at the point that they’re just going to have to adjust. If they’re not dying, there is no point in changing anything now.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

They are outdoor trees. You wouldn’t expect to grow a pine tree on your window sill would you? Even then, trees grow slowly in general. From seed, some could take 2-3 years to get pencil thick stems and thats with good light and fertilizers. I would not expect more from a tropical tree that grows in full sunlight. Basically, what I’m saying is to not expect anything spectacular without stronger, full direct sublight and regular fertilizer from fish waste or artificial…

They’re in south facing windows, and they get at least 4 hours of direct sunlight a day…and it’s been a really warm fall/early winter, so I’ve been able to keep the windows open most days and they get direct direct sunlight.

I mean, I’ve seen people grow them pretty well under reef lighting, so I would hope 4-5 hours of sunlight/day would get them going.

I am hooking up another tank that will connect to this one that will have a lot more fish/corals/inverts in it, so hopefully the nutrient bump will help. I’ve also got an ATI LED that I’m going to mount over both tanks, so the mangroves will get another 6hrs/day of somewhat substantial light. We’ll see.

 

[fish farmer]

Did you get them as pods or did they have leaves and roots when you planted them?

I hear they don't transplant well if they are rooted and leaved. I've only done pods before, I noticed the first time some shooted and then stalled, they were under a metal halide so light was decent. They fully rooted, but I think either I didn't mist them enough or they were too deep in the water, which is pretty much what your system looked like when I had them in a 20 gallon high.

The second time I planted some in a shallow tank and all took off, sprouted well, lighting wasn't spectacular, 90 watt PC, but they did grow(stretch) toward the light and I was able to prune/wire them. They grew very slowly. I did mist them occasionally, not every day, but frequently.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Did you get them as pods or did they have leaves and roots when you planted them?

I hear they don't transplant well if they are rooted and leaved. I've only done pods before, I noticed the first time some shooted and then stalled, they were under a metal halide so light was decent. They fully rooted, but I think either I didn't mist them enough or they were too deep in the water, which is pretty much what your system looked like when I had them in a 20 gallon high.

The second time I planted some in a shallow tank and all took off, sprouted well, lighting wasn't spectacular, 90 watt PC, but they did grow(stretch) toward the light and I was able to prune/wire them. They grew very slowly. I did mist them occasionally, not every day, but frequently.

Yeah, they came in leafed and rooted. They didn’t look spectacular when I got them, but didn’t look bad either.

A few weeks ago, I added more substrate and replanted them a little shallower. Two were looking rough, and had a couple of broken roots, so I replanted them in fresh-ish (probably a shade or two below brackish). One died pretty quickly, but the other has rebounded and looks pretty good.

As for the replanted trees in the tank, I’ve noticed that they’re at least starting to curve upward:

I’m going to set up a reef after winter break that this will serve as the filter for. You can see there is some turtle grass in there as well. It does well, but also doesn’t grow a lot. It will be interesting to see what happens to both the mangroves and turtle grass once there is a big jump in nutrient input.

 

[HuduVudu]

(I originally posted this in the mangrove thread, but maybe this will get more exposure)

What kind of growth rate do you typically see with mangroves?

I have 6 mangroves that I have planted in a small ‘lagoon’ tank in my classroom. In a month and a half, I have not seen any growth or even change in the plants.

Tank water is @ 1.024sg, and keep it at ~78F. While the tank itself has only been running for 2 months, it was made using sand and live rock from other seasoned tanks (complete with detritus, worms, etc). The tank is near south facing windows, and on sunny days, I would say the mangroves get about 2.5-3.5 hrs of direct sunlight, and another 5 hours of decent indirect light.

The system is sort of a modification of an under-gravel filter, designed that way solely to increase flow of nutrients over roots of mangroves and turtle grass. I will also be adding depth to the bed so that I can a) have some anaerobic NO3 reduction, and b)(hopefully) allow the CO2/carbonic acid to break down some of the aragonite and provide calcium and carbonate. Between the sand and the larger crushed coral pieces, I laid down a ~1.5” layer of Miracle Mud to provide iron.

The idea is that this lagoon system will serve as the sole filtration for a reef that I will connect to it. Once I add depth to the bed (using sand and detritus collected from H2O changes on other tanks), the water level will go up to the top of the tank.

The leaves feel soft (one leaf on one plant is a little bit tough feeling), but those mangroves have not budged an inch. The bio-mass of the system is low, but I’ve been pumping nutrients up in hopes of getting stuff going. The turtle grass is growing a little. Really not much in the way of algae growth. I’m sure the nutrient level is probably on the low side.

Thoughts?

I am no expert, but I had some start to give me some growth.

I had mine on rock curing tanks. I also misted the leaves with fresh water. I think my lighting was not good for growth.

I think you need more food for them and also to mist the leaves with fresh water (I used RO).

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I am no expert, but I had some start to give me some growth.

I had mine on rock curing tanks. I also misted the leaves with fresh water. I think my lighting was not good for growth.

I think you need more food for them and also to mist the leaves with fresh water (I used RO).

I typically spray them 2x/wk (have a bunch of other plants in there).

It’s interesting….my substrate bed is a couple of inches of crushed coral, 1.5” or so of Miracle Mud, and then I used a few inches of aragonite sand that I sucked out of other tanks so that I would have all of the benthos as well as detritus/nutrients. I did it that way to ensure a bed that was rich in the elements the plants needed. Pretty clear at this point, since there is very little algae growth and the turtle grass growth is low, that I need a lot more

 

[HuduVudu]

I typically spray them 2x/wk (have a bunch of other plants in there).

It’s interesting….my substrate bed is a couple of inches of crushed coral, 1.5” or so of Miracle Mud, and then I used a few inches of aragonite sand that I sucked out of other tanks so that I would have all of the benthos as well as detritus/nutrients. I did it that way to ensure a bed that was rich in the elements the plants needed. Pretty clear at this point, since there is very little algae growth and the turtle grass growth is low, that I need a lot more

Yup the clean sand was a dead give away.

I also misted daily. I think in time that you won't have to do that, but I dont know.

 

[Sshannon]

Mine grew about 4" year indoors under a blue white LED schedule in a barebottom tank

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

I live in Florida so I am familiar with growing mangroves. I like to start them in fresh water and grow them outside for a couple of years, pruning them back to make them full. You are from Chicago so that’s a no go for you. Get a good intense plant light off Amazon. Put them in fresh water and wait a couple of years. Then you will have some growth. Once they are where you like the, then convert them to saltwater over about a 3 to 4 week period. You could get some mollies and they will make the transition too.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Finally! I actually added more fish (and more food), and the mangroves responded:

It took a while to get them to do anything, but the nutrient addition really seemed to help them. Don’t we all get a little (ok…for me, a lot) bigger when we get a bunch of nutrients?

I also just realized when looking at the previous pics how much they have straightened out and gone vertical.

 

[Eric R.]

Finally! I actually added more fish (and more food), and the mangroves responded:

It took a while to get them to do anything, but the nutrient addition really seemed to help them. Don’t we all get a little (ok…for me, a lot) bigger when we get a bunch of nutrients?

I also just realized when looking at the previous pics how much they have straightened out and gone vertical.

I have 4 growing out in freshwater right now. Growth really slowed over the winter, but it's a lightly stocked tank with a bunch of water lettuce. The newest leaves don't look too healthy. I'm thinking the water lettuce is tanking too much of the N and P, though I need to get around to testing. They get just as much light and I've been dosing a micro trace mix, so I don't think it's those issues.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I have 4 growing out in freshwater right now. Growth really slowed over the winter, but it's a lightly stocked tank with a bunch of water lettuce. The newest leaves don't look too healthy. I'm thinking the water lettuce is tanking too much of the N and P, though I need to get around to testing. They get just as much light and I've been dosing a micro trace mix, so I don't think it's those issues.

Could be. Plants with higher growth rates can outcompete plants with slower growth rates for nutrients. The slow-grower tactical counter-move is to eventually grow enough to eliminate the competition with shade.