Marine Velvet With No Symptoms

[Marco S]

I have a QT setup that several fish have been in for a while and will stay in for at least a couple more months. I did not want to medicate them since they will be in QT for so long and figured I would just monitor them. Unfortunately one of my fish had flukes and I proved this with a fresh water dip that resulted in at least 20 flukes falling off it. I medicated with API General Cure and it appears that all flukes are gone now.

My problem now is that ever since the first dose of API General Cure, my Coral Beauty looks like it is covered with powdered sugar, (most likely velvet) but has had absolutely no symptoms and is eating fine, swimming fine and healing up from the flukes really well. I added the General Cure right into the tank near the power head so it would dissolve quickly, but it looked like a snow globe all shaken up for several hours and I thought the powder all over the Coral Beauty was the medication, but it has been two weeks now and I have since finished both doses of API General Cure so I am assuming it is velvet.

I have already purchased Cuprion and will start using it shortly, but I was just wondering if it is normal for a fish to be visibly covered with velvet for about two weeks now with no symptoms?

Also, could it possibly be the General Cure powder sticking to the fish and not velvet and if so, how can I wash it off?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I am all new to dealing with Saltwater Fish and these diseases and the QT process.

 

[Big G]

The angel is probably a "carrier" of the parasites and has built up some level of immunity. The question is how long will it last? Have seen this several times with Coral Beautys.

 

[Marco S]

is

The angel is probably a "carrier" of the parasites and has built up some level of immunity. The question is how long will it last? Have seen this several times with Coral Beautys.

I kind of figured that, but it is good to hear it from someone with a lot more experience. I will start the copper treatment tomorrow. None of the other fish have any signs of it so hopefully the copper kills it before they catch it.

The funny thing is that this Coral Beauty has really bonded with my two black and white Oscellarus Clown Fish. Not sure if that's normal, but his routine is too swim a few laps around the tank picking at algae and then he will hang out with the clowns for several minutes actually making plenty of contact with them and then he makes his laps around the tank again and repeats this process most of the day. The clowns seem to really like it as well, but I figure it's only a matter of time before they get infected by all the contact.

Hopefully they all survive because I have really gotten attached to them all and they are my first attempt at keeping saltwater fish ever.

 

[Big G]

The therapeutic dosage for Cuprion is very low and does not allow much wiggle room. Also, it is an ionic copper which is a bit harder on angel fish. So watch the fish for copper sensitivity as you slowly dose and bring the copper up to therapeutic level 0.20 ppm over 24-48 hours using either a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit or Hanna HL Copper Checker.
Prefer to use a chelated copper on dwarf angels, like Copper Power. Much larger therapeutic range 1.5-2.0 ppm, so you have a lot more wiggle room.

 

[Marco S]

The therapeutic dosage for Cuprion is very low and does not allow much wiggle room. Also, it is an ionic copper which is a bit harder on angel fish. So watch the fish for copper sensitivity as you slowly dose and bring the copper up to therapeutic level 0.20 ppm over 24-48 hours using either a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit or Hanna HL Copper Checker.
Prefer to use a chelated copper on dwarf angels, like Copper Power. Much larger therapeutic range 1.5-2.0 ppm, so you have a lot more wiggle room.

Thank you for the advice! After reading your advice and doing some more research here I ordered Copper Power and paid for the overnight shipping. I don't think I am experienced enough to maintain the exact ppm required for Cuprion while doing water changes to avoid Ammonia spikes. I did buy the Hanna checker, but it says that the accuracy is + or - .05 ppm, (how is that accurate) and Copper Power gives me a much better range so I can shoot for 1.75 or 2.0 ppm and still be safe if it is a bit lower or higher.

Thanks again!

 

[Marco S]

Here is my plan, please let me know if this will work or if I need to rethink it.

The 45 gallon QT currently has live rock in it since I was not planning on using medication in it but it is bare bottom. I have a 10 gallon QT/Hospital for my freshwater fish that I have not used in over a year. I plan on adding saltwater and moving the live rock over to the 10 gallon and getting some shrimp and snails in it since I cannot medicate them with copper. I will medicate the 45 gallon for the 30 day period and leave the 10 gallon tank with the rock and invertebrates and no fish for 75 days. By that time I should have the DT and as soon as it is cycled I can put all my new healthy pets in it.

After this first batch, I will continue to use the 45 gallon for all new fish and medicate them with Copper power for the 30 days before putting them into the DT and continue to add any new invertebrates or coral into the 10 gallon with the live rock and let them sit for a few months before putting them into the DT. Sound like a good plan or no?

 

[Big G]

Thank you for the advice! After reading your advice and doing some more research here I ordered Copper Power and paid for the overnight shipping. I don't think I am experienced enough to maintain the exact ppm required for Cuprion while doing water changes to avoid Ammonia spikes. I did buy the Hanna checker, but it says that the accuracy is + or - .05 ppm, (how is that accurate) and Copper Power gives me a much better range so I can shoot for 1.75 or 2.0 ppm and still be safe if it is a bit lower or higher.

Thanks again!

You are welcome. I am so glad you got both the Copper Power and the amazing Hanna HL Copper Checker. Those color test kits are horrible and probably killed as many fish as they helped. The Hanna will give you and your fish a much lower stress throughout the treatment period. With it I've been able to put through copper several "copper sensitive" fish without any problems at all. Congrats! Good move But with angels, remember to slowly ramp up the copper in smaller doses spread out throughout the day: AM, Lunch, PM, etc.

 

[Marco S]

I just wanted to update everyone that all my fish made it through the Copper treatment and my Coral Beauty now has absolutely no signs of Marine Velvet! Big thanks to Big G and everyone else who has posted valuable information in this forum! I could not have done it without your incredibly accurate and detailed advice.

I ended up getting another 45 gallon QT so I only left the fish in the copper for about 16 days and they never stopped eating like pigs or showed any signs of stress during the treatment or after being moved to the new QT. I am not going to hit them with PraziPro since I already did the General Cure before the copper, but going forward my plan is to put new fish in QT 1 with Copper for 15 days and then move them to QT 2 for a couple rounds of PraziPro then watch for another couple of weeks before going into the DT.

One thing I will note is that the Hanna Checker I purchased from BRS only comes with 5 or 6 of the packets you need to check the copper level so you may want to order more if you decide to purchase the checker.

 

[joec]

I just account for the margin of error of the Hannah checker and make sure I'm well outside the MOE when dosing

 

[ckalupa]

Are you certain that it’s not general cure particulate? Every time I dose that some fish will have small particles of it on them for a few days. Does not dissolve all that well (I even whip it up in a mag mixer) and some of it passes filter bags. Never see symptoms. However copper with it seems to work and if your are suspicious it better to err on the side of caution.