Marine Velvet

[Rconner15]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. Excited to bask in the knowledge of experienced reef keepers!

I had an outbreak of marine velvet in my display tank. I'm new to the hobby, and as an ignorant newbie thought I could get away with not quarantining. Well, after about 3 weeks of having some fish in the tank, I noticed one of my firefish flashing off the substrate. A little over a week later, all of my fish were dead. Because I had some corals in my tank, and no QT tank, I tried dosing with Metroplex, to no avail.

So, after that tough lessen, I set up a cheap 10 gallon QT tank, got it cycled, and added a couple clowns and a small yellow basset. Added the fish last Thursday. Yesterday, one of my clowns died of what I'm assuming is velvet.

My question is, can velvet live without water? Somehow, I must have cross contaminated from my DT to my QT. The only way I can figure that may have happened is from the use of my water change buckets and siphon that I used on both tanks. But I tried to ensure everything was dried out before using the equipment on my QT.

I started dosing my QT tank with Cupramine on Monday after noticing my fish were not eating well. Hopefully that will save the other two fish.

Thanks for any responses in advance!

 

[Brew12]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. Excited to bask in the knowledge of experienced reef keepers!

I had an outbreak of marine velvet in my display tank. I'm new to the hobby, and as an ignorant newbie thought I could get away with not quarantining. Well, after about 3 weeks of having some fish in the tank, I noticed one of my firefish flashing off the substrate. A little over a week later, all of my fish were dead. Because I had some corals in my tank, and no QT tank, I tried dosing with Metroplex, to no avail.

So, after that tough lessen, I set up a cheap 10 gallon QT tank, got it cycled, and added a couple clowns and a small yellow basset. Added the fish last Thursday. Yesterday, one of my clowns died of what I'm assuming is velvet.

My question is, can velvet live without water? Somehow, I must have cross contaminated from my DT to my QT. The only way I can figure that may have happened is from the use of my water change buckets and siphon that I used on both tanks. But I tried to ensure everything was dried out before using the equipment on my QT.

I started dosing my QT tank with Cupramine on Monday after noticing my fish were not eating well. Hopefully that will save the other two fish.

Thanks for any responses in advance!

Welcome to Reef2Reef! Sorry you are here because of your troubles, but glad to have you.

Yes, Velvet can survive for short periods of time without water. It is always best to have separate equipment for each system. You should have been ok had they been completely dry for 24 hours. Its a scary thought, but aerosol transmission is also possible if you set up your QT next to your DT.

Good luck saving the other fish! It sounds like you are heading in the right direction but if you need more advice, make sure to post in the fish disease section of the forums. We are fortunate to have two of the best in @Humblefish and @melypr1985 along with other knowledgeable people who can help you out.

 

[Humblefish]

Welcome to Reef2Reef! I would start out by reading this in its entirety: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

And also this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

Especially the section "Understanding Ich"

Both articles will give you a basic understanding of how parasites live & reproduce in a marine aquarium. We can then do a Q&A afterwards, as I'm sure you'll still have many questions.

 

[melypr1985]

Welcome to R2R! Yes, be sure to ask any questions those links leave you with! We'll be here for ya

 

[Rconner15]

Shoot! Airborn! Didn't consider that.

Thank you for the link! I'll dig through them and post any questions.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Welcome! You're in good hands with these guys^

I just thought it might be worth mentioning that it could also be brooklynella, which is notorious for infecting clownfish and has similar symptoms and mortality rates as velvet.

A few more links that may be helpful:

Fish Disease Index - Pictorial Guide

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Fish-Disease-Index---Pictorial-Guide.285708/

Brooklynella

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Brooklynella.247938/

 

[Rconner15]

So, a few questions after reading the velvet article.

1. I'm not completely clear on the purpose of the chemical bath. Is it to act as a disinfectant for any possible bacterial infections at the velvet attachment sites?

2. Should I go ahead and perform a freshwater dip on my remaining fish, or would performing a dip at this point be too stressful for the fish at this point? Fish seemed to loose appetite on Sunday, so I'm assuming they were infected at that point.

3. When I dosed with copper, I also dosed with Prazipro per the recommendation of my LFS. the article suggested dosing copper with an antibiotic. Can I dose an antibiotic with copper and prazipro?

 

[melypr1985]

1. I'm not completely clear on the purpose of the chemical bath. Is it to act as a disinfectant for any possible bacterial infections at the velvet attachment sites?

The acriflavin bath is to arrest any infection that might occur and give the antibiotics time to do their work. A chemical bath such as Formalin will kill a good portion (but not all) of the velvet parasites on the fish before putting them in the QT which would buy the fish much more time for the copper to do it's job.

2. Should I go ahead and perform a freshwater dip on my remaining fish, or would performing a dip at this point be too stressful for the fish at this point? Fish seemed to loose appetite on Sunday, so I'm assuming they were infected at that point.

The freshwater dip does a similar job a the chemical bath. It will flush out the gills of the fish and rid it of a good portion of the velvet parasites - again buying more time for the fish to be treated properly without dying.

3. When I dosed with copper, I also dosed with Prazipro per the recommendation of my LFS. the article suggested dosing copper with an antibiotic. Can I dose an antibiotic with copper and prazipro?

Prazipro is only needed in the water for 24 hours to do it's job. At this point you could do a water change and start antibiotics along with the copper.

 

[Rconner15]

Update on my fish. Both are still alive but still not really eating. Here are the actions I've taken so far:

1. Started dosing with Cupramine and prazipro on Monday 5/8

2. Reached full dose recommendation for Cupramine on 5/9 after my first clown died. Decided not to wait the full 48hours due to fear of velvet

3. 20% water change on 5/18. My LFS recommended this step when I told him the fish still were not eating. He thought they may not be eating due to the stress of the copper treatmemt. He suggested the 20% change and a redose of prazipro. He said that the remaining copper would still be at therapeutic levels. He also gave me some Entice to see if I could get them to eat that way. Unfortunately, it did not.

As of last night, the fish still were not actively eating. I did notice two white spots on the upper back of the clown last night. Also, my water looks a bit cloudy.

Any suggestions on what to do at this point? I've heard the prazi can make water go cloudy. Should I just leave the tank as is until next Monday, once the recommended treatment timeframe for the Cupramine is complete?

 

[ngoodermuth]

If you did a 20% water change without adding copper to the "new" water, it's very likely that your copper is no longer therapeutic. Are you checking with a test kit? If it dips below therapeutic (.35-.4 for cupramine) you will essentially have to "restart" the copper treatment clock after the levels are back to where they should be.

The cloudy water could be a bit of bacterial bloom from the copper and prazi-pro. You can do another water change to clear it out a bit after the prazi has been in for 24 hours, but make sure to add copper to the fresh salt water. What date was the second prazi dose? You wrote 5/18, but I'm guessing that was a typo since today is the 16th

 

[Rconner15]

If you did a 20% water change without adding copper to the "new" water, it's very likely that your copper is no longer therapeutic. Are you checking with a test kit? If it dips below therapeutic (.35-.4 for cupramine) you will essentially have to "restart" the copper treatment clock after the levels are back to where they should be.

The cloudy water could be a bit of bacterial bloom from the copper and prazi-pro. You can do another water change to clear it out a bit after the prazi has been in for 24 hours, but make sure to add copper to the fresh salt water. What date was the second prazi dose? You wrote 5/18, but I'm guessing that was a typo since today is the 16th

I'm not testing copper levels. I'll have to get a kit.
Prazi was 5/11. So water chamge and redose with copper only? No more prazi?

 

[Humblefish]

I'm not testing copper levels. I'll have to get a kit.
Prazi was 5/11. So water chamge and redose with copper only? No more prazi?

You need to do a second dose, 5-7 days after the first.

 

[ngoodermuth]

The two doses of prazi should have been dosed 5-7 days apart to break the flukes lifecycle. I think I would focus on the copper and getting a good handle on that. I'd get the seachem test kit if you are using cupramine. You're going to want to test it frequently, definitely after any water changes, to make sure the level is holding steady at .5, and no lower than .4. Keep in mind, cupramine becomes toxic to the fish around .7-.8 so you don't want to overdose it either.

 

[ngoodermuth]

You can add another dose of prazi between now and the 18th and be good. If it goes past the 18th, you'll have to start the two doses over.

 

[melypr1985]

I'm not testing copper levels. I'll have to get a kit.

You'll want to test the copper levels daily until you reach therapeutic. Seachem makes a kit that measures cupramine. Don't start the 30 day clock until you have tested the copper and know where it's at. Always redose the copper in the new water after a water change to keep the levels from dropping below therapeutic.

 

[Rconner15]

Partial success! My clown started eating again about a week ago. As for the basslet, still haven't seen him take any bites, but he's still alive. My LFS thinks the only real thing keeping him from eating at this point is the stress from the copper treatment. He suggested I pull the copper out of the water now that I've completed the 14 day treatment per the Cupramine instruction.

I'm thinking I will pull the copper out and start dosing with paraguard, as I've heard that is a less stressful treatment. Any thoughts?

 

[Brew12]

Partial success! My clown started eating again about a week ago. As for the basslet, still haven't seen him take any bites, but he's still alive. My LFS thinks the only real thing keeping him from eating at this point is the stress from the copper treatment. He suggested I pull the copper out of the water now that I've completed the 14 day treatment per the Cupramine instruction.

I'm thinking I will pull the copper out and start dosing with paraguard, as I've heard that is a less stressful treatment. Any thoughts?

The 14 day treatment is only adequate if you then transfer them into a clean tank. I wouldn't pull the copper out before 30 days if you don't have a clean tank to put them in.

What is it you are trying to feed him?

 

[Rconner15]

Typically frozen Hikari Spirulina Brine shrimp. I also tried some live brine shrimp to see if I could get him to eat that.

 

[Brew12]

Typically frozen Hikari Spirulina Brine shrimp. I also tried some live brine shrimp to see if I could get him to eat that.

I'm surprised that isn't working. Basslet's are normally pretty aggressive feeders imo.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Have you de-wormed these fish? Sometimes intestinal worms and/or flukes can cause a fish not to eat. Have you seen any white-stringy poop?

A fw dip would rule out flukes. If you have metroplex you can dose the QT tank to see if that helps with possible internal worms. It worked for me recently with a Regal angel. It works better if you feed it to them bound to food w/focus, but if it's not eating dosing the tank is better than nothing.