Mated pairs of fish worth it? Specifically goby.

[Lylelovett]

Hi all,

I was considering a mated goby pair (from LA in this instance)... What has your experience been with mated goby pairs? Are they worth it? Pros and cons? Thoughts? Etc?

Thanks for your input!

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Hi all,

I was considering a mated goby pair (from LA in this instance)... What has your experience been with mated goby pairs? Are they worth it? Pros and cons? Thoughts? Etc?

Thanks for your input!

I bought a male Mandarin Goby two years ago. Weeks later found a female, they fell madly in love. They have been a spawning pair for over a year and a half. I personally think it’s cool. They thrive in my tank. Obviously lots of live food present. Definitely worth it!!!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all,

I was considering a mated goby pair (from LA in this instance)... What has your experience been with mated goby pairs? Are they worth it? Pros and cons? Thoughts? Etc?

Thanks for your input!

It’s a great purchase as you know they’re mated
Cons are :
In the event of loss, you’re back to square one. Other would be maintaining optimal conditions for breeding

 

[fushi]

Personally I think its worth it when its hard to tell the difference between the male and female.

 

[Lylelovett]

I bought a male Mandarin Goby two years ago. Weeks later found a female, they fell madly in love. They have been a spawning pair for over a year and a half. I personally think it’s cool. They thrive in my tank. Obviously lots of live food present. Definitely worth it!!!

When you say "lots of live food present", what do you mean exactly?

Do you target feed them?

 

[jrill]

I bought a "mated pair" of High fin banded gobies from Live Aquari along with a pistol shrimp. The gobies fought from day one until they found separate places in the tank. One goby, the larger one stayed with the shrimp. The other would occasionally try to come near the other goby and the shrimp until about two months later when I found him dead. Did work out for me.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

When you say "lots of live food present", what do you mean exactly?

Do you target feed them?

Well, I have a well established reef with both live rock and life rock made by Caribsea. I have small yellow sponges and colorful coralline algae growing as well. So what ultimately happens is that both amphipods and copepods at one point or another make their way into your tank and breed like crazy (the live food) they are very much wanted and welcome in anyone’s reef setup. To answer your last question: I don’t target feed my gobies. The pods are always present and reproducing faster than the gobies can eat them. And they eat a couple hundred a day.

 

[vtecintegra]

I always try to generate pairs when possible. I've got a pair of cardinals and firefish. Working on grammas and hawks. I got lucky with the firefish only selecting two at the LFS. One is a female, the other a male and they are inseparable. They sleep in the same hole, get up together every morning, and go to bed together every night. I swear I saw them kiss the other day, lol. So yes, I think it's worth it. Their interaction is interesting to watch.

 

[Tamberav]

Many gobies change sex so I wouldn't pay extra for what LA calls a mated pair as I have heard they get it wrong sometimes anyways. If one comes DOA they only credit you half pretty sure even though you are being charged extra for a mated pair.

I guess what I am saying... is I like mated pairs but many can be made yourself in many cases.

 

[Zionas]

As for mated pairs of fish or harems for some species, I think it’s not only worth it, but the approach I have decided to stick with to the greatest extent possible as long as space allows.

Before trying to pair / group fish, it is important to understand what their social structure is. A lot of fish are hermaphrodites. The most common is that of the prototgynous hermaphrodite which is basically biology speak for young / juvenile fish that start off as females and turn into males. The other, slightly less common kind is protoandrogynous hermaphroditism which is the opposite: Young fish start life as males and mature into females. Of course, the most well-known example of this is Clownfish but some say it’s true with dwarf angels (though the vast majority believe they have a patriarchal social structure).

Either way, it doesn’t really matter as long as the species in question are capable of changing sex. In this case, I’d get two or more young fish and have them sort it out.

With gonochristic fish (did I get the spelling right?), sex is determined at birth and the fish remain female or male throughout their lives. I don’t have much experience dealing with but I’d imagine buying multiple specimens and having pairs emerge as a result of time and observation is probably the only way to go.

And then with some fish I’m not quite sure whether they’re capable of changing sex or not. An example would be basslets and Grammas. I know other Serranids including Anthias have a patriarchal social structure, but I’m not sure about the Liopoproma and Grammas. Another example would be butterflyfish, where we’re still not quite sure. Some mass / broadcast spawners like Tangs and Rabbitfish probably face the same issue.



Not only is it far more interesting to observe the group / pair behaviors of keeping more than a single specimen (as long as space allows), it is being authentic to their natural way of life. It’s far more interesting to see a pair or harem of fish exhibit grouping, territorial, and spawning behavior than just mashing together singles of different species and trying to create a figurative mosaic of sorts. Just like how I’m not a fan of stuffing as many rainbow colored corals and frags as I am trying to create a more natural look that tries to recreate the ocean, I don’t want to get 12 single specimens of 12 different species just for the sake of variety and cramming as many colors and shapes as possible. That’s not how it really works in the ocean and not what people see when they go on a dive.

There’s also, in my view, the issue of creating a tank where everything looks to scale rather than looking too large and out of place. You don’t get this by having too many large, active fish which is why I’m warming to the approach of only having a few larger fish and the rest being smaller ones. Easier on the filtration too. When you dive on a typical reef, it’s the small fish farting in and out of corals and seeking refuge that catch your eye and the larger fish come into view a bit later. In this regard being able to pair / group more species of small / medium fish rather than having as many Tangs and large angels as possible is far more realistic and interesting.

And finally, from an aesthetic point of view, I have come to realize that when it comes to colors, sometimes less is more. There can be just as much, if not more (and more natural) beauty in uniformity of
color (which can be achieved by having pairs and harems) rather than a palette that tries to combine as many colors as possible for the sake of that “rainbow” look.

Of course different people have different preferences, but I believe there’s strong arguments to be made for adopting a social-centric over a variety-centric approach.

This requires space for each to feel comfortable, to spawn and to develop territorial behavior. I feel many tanks heavily stocked with many large fish aren’t really giving different species the opportunity to develop their own territories and safe spaces unless the owner is very experienced at designing the rock scape. They all need space to swim, sleep, mate (if kept in groups / pairs), and feel comfortable.


*I forgot to mention simultaneous hermaphrodites which some Serranus fall into. They can freely change sex based on circumstances.


I’d go as far as saying it’s almost a bit wrong to keep fish singly as long as it’s a species that isn’t too hard to pair or group. It’s not the natural instinct of fish to be alone (nor humans for that matter) and not mate. In fact, the desire can be so strong that sometimes one species would go out of their way to mate with another if their conspecifics are rare in that stretch of sea (or even if they just happen to be close by). This is why we see many hybrids with Angels, Butterflies, sometimes Tangs and even Wrasses. Assortative mating is a preference for one’s own species over others, but as we can see with the numerous hybrids fish would rather find another kind than be alone.

Not sure about all, but many Gobies including the shrimp gobies are protogynous hermaphrodites. Find 2 small ones and should be fine.

 

[Zionas]

In that case I’d rather just find two small specimens and pair them up over time.

 

[Paul B]

All my gobies, and most of my fish are mated pairs. If I can tell the difference in a fish I always try to get a pair, But as was said, most of them can change sex.

I have mated watchmans, clown gobies, randalls gobi's along with mandarins, ruby reds, bluestripe pipefish, 6 line wrasses and fireclowns. Of course these last few are not gobies.

Watchmans with eggs.



Spawning Randalls.


Spawning Cardinals.


Pregnant mandarin



Clown gobi with egs.


Bluestripe pipefish with eggs.

 

[Zionas]

How did the Six Lines end up as a pair? Did you buy two small ones? (And how long have you kept them for?)

 

[Paul B]

I still can't tell the difference with the 6 lines and I have not seen their eggs. They disappear in a cave in the back of my tank as do the Randalls gobies.

Those fish paired up all by themselves and I have no idea if they were male and female or if they changed.

But most of those small fish can change. An exception for some reason are these gobies. I have three of them and they never interact, not even a little. I think they hate each other.

One 6 line I have a few years, I don't remember how long and one is maybe 2 or 3 years old.



I have two of these sunburst anthius and they never get together. This one killed another one so I got another one, but they never swim near each other.





Of course you can't stop Bangai Cardinals from spawning.



I also think these banana fish spawned as they too used to disappear in a hole together but I never saw any eggs so I can't swear to it.



Many fish in the sea stay paired up for life and I like to keep things natural in my tank

 

[Zionas]

Totally agree. Much more entertaining than just keeping singles of different species. Fish have a biological desire to mate whether in pairs or harems, why take that away from them as long as we have the space?

 

[Lylelovett]

This has all been super helpful! Thank you so much. You've convinced me to try a mated pair.

 

[Zionas]

Good luck!

 

[Zwinters57]

I bought a male Mandarin Goby two years ago. Weeks later found a female, they fell madly in love. They have been a spawning pair for over a year and a half. I personally think it’s cool. They thrive in my tank. Obviously lots of live food present. Definitely worth it!!!

Fyi, Mandarin Dragonettes are not actually gobies at all. This is one of the most ridiculous misnaming of species in the animal kingdom. But I agree, I have a two year old captive bred pair. They love each other and spend 90% of their time cruising together. This must help them feel more comfortable and at home.