me again
- Thread starter Tmar
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I started with an 8g bio cube. Ran it for 2yrs. Now I'm running a 26g and it's almost 3 
I agree if you can keep a nano successfully for longer then a year the rest is easy pezy LOL.
You might want to lower your temp a little. 76-79 area. Are you running your lights? If so might wanna keep them off. Really not needed and will help prevent algae growth.
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I agree if you can keep a nano successfully for longer then a year the rest is easy pezy LOL.You might want to lower your temp a little. 76-79 area. Are you running your lights? If so might wanna keep them off. Really not needed and will help prevent algae growth.
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Last edited:
OP
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Tmar
Active Member
Ok, another battery of tests
October 30, 2013 @ 6:00pm
sg: 1.025
temp: 77F
ammonia 0
nitrites 5+
nitrates 80+
did a 2 gallon water change (nitrates very high)
added 3 ml of ammonia
more hurry up and wait!
October 30, 2013 @ 6:00pm
sg: 1.025
temp: 77F
ammonia 0
nitrites 5+
nitrates 80+
did a 2 gallon water change (nitrates very high)
added 3 ml of ammonia
more hurry up and wait!
OP
OP
Tmar
Active Member
Nov 3/2013 @ 8:00pm
sg 1.024
temp 78F
ammonia 0
nitrites 5+
nitrates 80+
50% partial water change
fed 0.5 ml ammonia
calcium 410
phosphates 0
pH 8.2
going along nicely... more waiting and watching
sg 1.024
temp 78F
ammonia 0
nitrites 5+
nitrates 80+
50% partial water change
fed 0.5 ml ammonia
calcium 410
phosphates 0
pH 8.2
going along nicely... more waiting and watching
And waiting and waiting and waiting...lol. Yes I'm waiting with ya
Sent from my iPhone 4s via Tapatalk.
Sent from my iPhone 4s via Tapatalk.
Dalmatia
Valuable Member
Update pics.... I swear the color on the two rocks are indeed coralline algae :clap2:
at least I sure hope it is...
It should be a florescent green than it will go purple, on the rock anyways
OP
OP
Tmar
Active Member
I've begun to just totally ignore the rock now and concentrate on the cycle! Is less painful that way :israel:
Figure if I can get past the feeding of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates while keeping my pH right where it is now... then I can at least add my fish :amen:
Then the rock can do whatever it is it's gonna do or even nothing at all for a long long time, just as long as I have a fish in there by say... uh, Dec 7th! :third:
Is less painful that way :israel:Figure if I can get past the feeding of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates while keeping my pH right where it is now... then I can at least add my fish :amen:
Then the rock can do whatever it is it's gonna do or even nothing at all for a long long time, just as long as I have a fish in there by say... uh, Dec 7th! :third:
Eienna
5000 Club Member
I've begun to just totally ignore the rock now and concentrate on the cycle!
Figure if I can get past the feeding of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates while keeping my pH right where it is now... then I can at least add my fish :amen:
Then the rock can do whatever it is it's gonna do or even nothing at all for a long long time, just as long as I have a fish in there by say... uh, Dec 7th! :third:
Your pH will likely drop at some point in the cycling process. Don't worry if this happens; it's normal and will come back up with time and water changes.
Agree on not worrying about your PH. But if you really wanna worry then worry about how your going to maintain your addiction Got any valuables stored away? Hahaha!
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Got any valuables stored away? Hahaha!Sent from my iPhone 4s via Tapatalk.
OP
OP
Tmar
Active Member
Nope, but a promotion at work is right around the corner as well as a hefty pay raise of over 8 bucks an hour
I added my ammonia tonight and I am so proud of myself. I only spent half an hour staring at the tank this time!!
I added my ammonia tonight and I am so proud of myself. I only spent half an hour staring at the tank this time!!
Dylan J.
Active Member
Just a little something to read up on, this is from someone that is in a local forum. We had a person on the forum who was having issues with the cycling and so forth a member who has been in the hobby for quite some time wrote this. (This is not mine just want to clarify that haha)
You are definitely on the up swing of the learning curve, Jonathan. Don’t worry you are not alone. It’s great you are willing to learn. So, here’s my two cents worth...
Few people know this, fewer people understand it and practice it. When setting up a SW tank the sequence of adding critters is critical to NOT having an algae outbreak. Because there is a very delicate balance between nutrient levels and normal algae growth and a literal algae outbreak, like out of control. It's the later you want to avoid of course. It doesn’t sound to me like you have the out of control incident.
EVERYONE reading this, please keep in mind there are so many variables in reef setups and in implementing a new system, that it’s nearly impossible to follow these rules and have the same success that I achieve. BUT, I seldom experience an algae outbreak beyond a small incidence which is normal. Think about it, you mix water, nutrients and light, bingo, you have the recipe for algae to appear. It seems to come from out of the blue and it does!
Ok, after setting up the system and getting water flowing, I’m going to assume you have the basics ie, sump/refugium, RO/DI water (zero ppm), substrate (Aragonite sand being best, crushed coral being the worst), live rock (LR), quality brand of salt, adequate lighting and circulation. The "cycle" has begun but weak and has a long way to go. The cycle is one of the least understood things that happens in our reef tank. People refer to their cycle as being finished or over or done. I’ve got news for them, the cycle never ends! The Cycle is a never ending phenomenon. As long as you have life in your system the cycle goes on and on. The best explanation I’ve ever read on the cycle was written a few years ago by friend, Eric Borneman. It impacted my reef keeping to the point that I got permission from Eric to post it on my web site. I suggest everyone go, read it and learn. It can be found here -
the cycle
At this beginning point in our set up, is where many (most) reefers begin making mistakes. What do they do? They quickly get tired of staring into this beautiful aquascape and NOT SEEING any life (it’s only been a day or two), they begin to fantasize (indulge in daydreaming of something desired) about the beautiful fish they saw at the LFS. They want movement and they want it NOW!!! Their thinking goes something like this...
"Man, this is so beautiful, it just needs a fish or two and then it will be complete, at least for now. I mean, the water is crystal clear, everything looks good, I tested for Ammonia and got zero, I wonder if the cycle has happened. Maybe! I hope so because I want to get that cute little Nemo the LFS is holding for me. I can’t wait any longer. I’m going to go ask the LFS guy if my tank is ready”.
And what does the LFS guy tell him (without asking key questions)? Oh yeah, your tank is probably ready. Or something like that.
Scenarios like this happen countless times everyday and the hapless, thoughtless, uninformed reefer heads down the road of many unhappy returns!
I always tell my customers, the cycle is never over. You must at least go through the INITIAL sequence of an Ammonia spike and drop to zero, then a Nitrite spike and drop to zero, and you must test the parameters yourself, not the LFS guy! You must SEE the sequence with your own eyes. After you see the sequence then you can begin adding critters. Now the sequence of adding critters begins...
The correct way to add critters in a new setup is to begin with a clean up crew (CUC), Blue Leg Hermits, Emerald crabs, snails etc. Corals can added at this time too. BUT no fish! Here’s why...
What do we need to grow algae?, water (we got), light (we got) nutrients (we’re getting in the form of LR, and bacteria die off, CUC waste, and food introduced to feed the CUC.) The ingredients are all there and the formula would look like this, W+L+N=algae. So, why can’t we add fish if we can add corals and CUC???
Good question! In the equation of W+L+N=algae you want the N (nutrients) to be a small n. Rewriting the formula like this W+L+n=less algae. Of all the possible critters we can add to our system the most nutrient producing are the fish. Fish consume the most food and produce the most waste. In the beginning you want to avoid this nutrient producer until your system has matured and that will take months.
If you have read Borneman's article referenced above you will already know your system will not be mature until the cycle settles down. Plus you will realize that every time you add a critter (especially fish) you are creating a new potential imbalance which your cycling bacteria must compensate for the additional BIO-LOAD. You literally could cause a MINI-CYCLE which could not only be the source of your algae but possible death of some of your critters whether they be coral, fish of whatever.
Patience and research are two key words for success in reef keeping. You want to be successful. I want you to be successful! There’s no fun in staring into a green soupy mess that you’ve spent thousands of dollars on. Do it in the right sequence and you will have greater success, sooner.
Why am I so sure of this??? Because in my 47 years experience exclusively with SW systems, I’ve committed all the mistakes one can make while in the learning curve! You don’t have to because many have gone before you and reported on the speed bumps and radar traps ahead of you. What you have to do to avoid these and many other mistakes is research.
You are already doing the right thing by coming here and asking questions. Now, if you haven’t already done so, go read Eric’s article - the cycle
As I said in the beginning, there are many variables but this should get you headed in the right direction. I can be reached here on the forum, at my facility or by toll free number 888 745-0449 or local number 772 979-0786. I’m happy to help.
Happy reefing.
Dick
You are definitely on the up swing of the learning curve, Jonathan. Don’t worry you are not alone. It’s great you are willing to learn. So, here’s my two cents worth...
Few people know this, fewer people understand it and practice it. When setting up a SW tank the sequence of adding critters is critical to NOT having an algae outbreak. Because there is a very delicate balance between nutrient levels and normal algae growth and a literal algae outbreak, like out of control. It's the later you want to avoid of course. It doesn’t sound to me like you have the out of control incident.
EVERYONE reading this, please keep in mind there are so many variables in reef setups and in implementing a new system, that it’s nearly impossible to follow these rules and have the same success that I achieve. BUT, I seldom experience an algae outbreak beyond a small incidence which is normal. Think about it, you mix water, nutrients and light, bingo, you have the recipe for algae to appear. It seems to come from out of the blue and it does!
Ok, after setting up the system and getting water flowing, I’m going to assume you have the basics ie, sump/refugium, RO/DI water (zero ppm), substrate (Aragonite sand being best, crushed coral being the worst), live rock (LR), quality brand of salt, adequate lighting and circulation. The "cycle" has begun but weak and has a long way to go. The cycle is one of the least understood things that happens in our reef tank. People refer to their cycle as being finished or over or done. I’ve got news for them, the cycle never ends! The Cycle is a never ending phenomenon. As long as you have life in your system the cycle goes on and on. The best explanation I’ve ever read on the cycle was written a few years ago by friend, Eric Borneman. It impacted my reef keeping to the point that I got permission from Eric to post it on my web site. I suggest everyone go, read it and learn. It can be found here -
the cycle
At this beginning point in our set up, is where many (most) reefers begin making mistakes. What do they do? They quickly get tired of staring into this beautiful aquascape and NOT SEEING any life (it’s only been a day or two), they begin to fantasize (indulge in daydreaming of something desired) about the beautiful fish they saw at the LFS. They want movement and they want it NOW!!! Their thinking goes something like this...
"Man, this is so beautiful, it just needs a fish or two and then it will be complete, at least for now. I mean, the water is crystal clear, everything looks good, I tested for Ammonia and got zero, I wonder if the cycle has happened. Maybe! I hope so because I want to get that cute little Nemo the LFS is holding for me. I can’t wait any longer. I’m going to go ask the LFS guy if my tank is ready”.
And what does the LFS guy tell him (without asking key questions)? Oh yeah, your tank is probably ready. Or something like that.
Scenarios like this happen countless times everyday and the hapless, thoughtless, uninformed reefer heads down the road of many unhappy returns!
I always tell my customers, the cycle is never over. You must at least go through the INITIAL sequence of an Ammonia spike and drop to zero, then a Nitrite spike and drop to zero, and you must test the parameters yourself, not the LFS guy! You must SEE the sequence with your own eyes. After you see the sequence then you can begin adding critters. Now the sequence of adding critters begins...
The correct way to add critters in a new setup is to begin with a clean up crew (CUC), Blue Leg Hermits, Emerald crabs, snails etc. Corals can added at this time too. BUT no fish! Here’s why...
What do we need to grow algae?, water (we got), light (we got) nutrients (we’re getting in the form of LR, and bacteria die off, CUC waste, and food introduced to feed the CUC.) The ingredients are all there and the formula would look like this, W+L+N=algae. So, why can’t we add fish if we can add corals and CUC???
Good question! In the equation of W+L+N=algae you want the N (nutrients) to be a small n. Rewriting the formula like this W+L+n=less algae. Of all the possible critters we can add to our system the most nutrient producing are the fish. Fish consume the most food and produce the most waste. In the beginning you want to avoid this nutrient producer until your system has matured and that will take months.
If you have read Borneman's article referenced above you will already know your system will not be mature until the cycle settles down. Plus you will realize that every time you add a critter (especially fish) you are creating a new potential imbalance which your cycling bacteria must compensate for the additional BIO-LOAD. You literally could cause a MINI-CYCLE which could not only be the source of your algae but possible death of some of your critters whether they be coral, fish of whatever.
Patience and research are two key words for success in reef keeping. You want to be successful. I want you to be successful! There’s no fun in staring into a green soupy mess that you’ve spent thousands of dollars on. Do it in the right sequence and you will have greater success, sooner.
Why am I so sure of this??? Because in my 47 years experience exclusively with SW systems, I’ve committed all the mistakes one can make while in the learning curve! You don’t have to because many have gone before you and reported on the speed bumps and radar traps ahead of you. What you have to do to avoid these and many other mistakes is research.
You are already doing the right thing by coming here and asking questions. Now, if you haven’t already done so, go read Eric’s article - the cycle
As I said in the beginning, there are many variables but this should get you headed in the right direction. I can be reached here on the forum, at my facility or by toll free number 888 745-0449 or local number 772 979-0786. I’m happy to help.
Happy reefing.
Dick
OP
OP
Tmar
Active Member
to: Dylan J (a.k.a Dick)
YaY! Thank you so much for that
That is by far the most informative piece of information I have received on this "new" hobby of mine to date. NOT taking anything away from the other advice or input I've received either. I still very much value my encouraging "cheer" group such as Nanareefer (god bless you), Eienna and Dalmatia (thanx tonz) but will be following this and Erics instructions from here on.
I had planned on dosing my lil nano with ammonia for a minimum of 4 weeks regardless. Once I have an eye on some live rock "critters" and a decent amount of algae (no sign of that yet either) then I will add some CUC. I believe I am patient enough to further wait until my tank is more "mature" before adding my clownfish. I highly doubt I will be adding corals anytime soon, if ever. Plan to put that pandoras box off until I have the funds for a larger system. This nano is slated to be only a FOWLR tank
Guess if I don't get "critters" and/or algae it means fail ... so far the "cycle" looks to be successful in it's progression (startup). I will take this as a good sign and continue to add nothing but ammonia every day.
will take and post pics if and when anything changes
YaY! Thank you so much for that
That is by far the most informative piece of information I have received on this "new" hobby of mine to date. NOT taking anything away from the other advice or input I've received either. I still very much value my encouraging "cheer" group such as Nanareefer (god bless you), Eienna and Dalmatia (thanx tonz) but will be following this and Erics instructions from here on.
I had planned on dosing my lil nano with ammonia for a minimum of 4 weeks regardless. Once I have an eye on some live rock "critters" and a decent amount of algae (no sign of that yet either) then I will add some CUC. I believe I am patient enough to further wait until my tank is more "mature" before adding my clownfish. I highly doubt I will be adding corals anytime soon, if ever. Plan to put that pandoras box off until I have the funds for a larger system. This nano is slated to be only a FOWLR tank
Guess if I don't get "critters" and/or algae it means fail ... so far the "cycle" looks to be successful in it's progression (startup). I will take this as a good sign and continue to add nothing but ammonia every day.
will take and post pics if and when anything changes
OP
OP
Tmar
Active Member
Np! Yeah once I read this I knew I had to share to other people that were starting off in the hobby
It's good advice and I find myself wondering how many people actually follow it! :eyebrows:
I am, however, going to continue to do my testing because I find it fascinating and fun.... and well, practice makes perfect. I might even gain some confidence sometime down the road that I am doing and reading them right! :loco:
November 6, 2013
Power outage at 5pm - lasted until 7:10pm but nothing seems to have gone haywire, my temp didnt even drop below 75F
sg: 1.023 (down from 1.025 in two days?) guess freshwater top offs were a bit too fresh?
temp 78F until power outage and then dropped to 75F back up to 77F by 9:00pm when I did the rest of the tests...
ammonia 0
nitrites 0.25
nitrates 5
pH 8.4
no tests for phosphates, calcium, magnesium as still no sign of critters. My tank still looks bare, empty and void of life. :suspicious:
Of course, I am not discouraged since I know that the cycle has .... well, cycled!! Almost anyway
OP
OP
Tmar
Active Member
Ok, so if my cycle is almost thru the ammonia & nitrite spikes and nitrates are relatively low (less than 10) but I have NO sign of critters or algae or diatoms or life in the tank....
what do I do next??
According to Dick and his Dr... im sposed to add a CUC, but wouldnt they starve at this point? which i spose their dead bodies then rot and continue the cycle ..
would it not be cheaper to just toss in a couple shrimp in that case, to continue the "nitrogen" cycle until I see some concrete sign of life in there? INput plz!
what do I do next??
According to Dick and his Dr... im sposed to add a CUC, but wouldnt they starve at this point? which i spose their dead bodies then rot and continue the cycle ..
would it not be cheaper to just toss in a couple shrimp in that case, to continue the "nitrogen" cycle until I see some concrete sign of life in there? INput plz!
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