Metal Halide vs. LED Rates of Photosynthesis

[areefer01]

Nothing to do with popularity. It's just the Troll type of posting from so many that is obvious. Again, you can usually get that from the message count to reaction score.

Actually great point!

 

[Bpb]

Popularity? Cool kids club? Heavy post count via lounge threads...

This isn't related to you but I am more of a show me your display and length of time sort of person now. Too much bias in this hobby as you can see in this very thread...

Hope you are doing well!

I know your post wasn’t a dig at him, so this isn’t a refute, but just saying @JCOLE is one of those people who you can look at their tank and at least know he’s not full of hot air. Great looking tank.

But I agree. If someone can’t produce some degree of proof that they have pulled off a good degree of success in growing coral, I can’t help but not take their posts seriously. If that means people are bored or uninspired with my own work, so be it. I do try to stay within my success levels in experience when giving advice. That being said. I’ve had a bear of a time getting my new tank to pick up where my last one left off. It’s been quite frustrating! Maybe I should pick up that cebu sun that is available locally. I kid I kid.

 

[areefer01]

I know your post wasn’t a dig at him, so this isn’t a refute, but just saying @JCOLE is one of those people who you can look at their tank and at least know he’s not full of hot air. Great looking tank.

But I agree. If someone can’t produce some degree of proof that they have pulled off a good degree of success in growing coral, I can’t help but not take their posts seriously. If that means people are bored or uninspired with my own work, so be it. I do try to stay within my success levels in experience when giving advice. That being said. I’ve had a bear of a time getting my new tank to pick up where my last one left off. It’s been quite frustrating! Maybe I should pick up that cebu sun that is available locally. I kid I kid.

Oh - no, no dig at him at all. Please accept my apologies if it seemed like that.

@JCOLE apologies to you. That was me just speaking out loud. Sorry.

 

[Bpb]

Oh - no, no dig at him at all. Please accept my apologies if it seemed like that.

@JCOLE apologies to you. That was me just speaking out loud. Sorry.

It didn’t seem that way to me, I just feared the nature of my response would feel like an accusation lol

 

[JCOLE]

I know your post wasn’t a dig at him, so this isn’t a refute, but just saying @JCOLE is one of those people who you can look at their tank and at least know he’s not full of hot air. Great looking tank.

But I agree. If someone can’t produce some degree of proof that they have pulled off a good degree of success in growing coral, I can’t help but not take their posts seriously. If that means people are bored or uninspired with my own work, so be it. I do try to stay within my success levels in experience when giving advice. That being said. I’ve had a bear of a time getting my new tank to pick up where my last one left off. It’s been quite frustrating! Maybe I should pick up that cebu sun that is available locally. I kid I kid.

Thanks man! Likewise! Your last tank was an inspiration and one anyone should strive to have.

I agree! You know those halides are calling you back to the dark side!

 

[JCOLE]

Oh - no, no dig at him at all. Please accept my apologies if it seemed like that.

@JCOLE apologies to you. That was me just speaking out loud. Sorry.

No apologies needed. We are good. I knew what you meant. My replies were not directed towards you either.

That was just me speaking out loud as well.

 

[A. grandis]

You are arguing that mh are not superior in shimmer? Only led that's come close to matching shimmer it the kessil and it would take multiple of them over the same display that a single mh with reflector will to produce the same shimmer.

No. MH is the king of shimmer IMO! It's just that we really don't need any "data" to approve it. So obvious!

As for growth I posted multiple videos from multiple farmers explaining why they use mh for growth. Google works, youtube search works. I know you have seen those vids I posted already so posting them again is a waste of my time and energy.

Yes, they use MH for growth!
I just added pigment formation from MHs as well. Very important.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Yep. This whole thing with LEDs has become more of an arcade experience than recreating an accurate depiction of a coral reef.

Crit, grab the laser tag guns!

I have never seen a single hobbyist reef that is an "accurate depiction of a coral reef", tbh. Reefing is a hobby and everyone does it differently. I am not a fan of the windex look but many are. I only take issue when people suggest that white lite is actively harmful (yes I see this on facebook often).

 

[Nano sapiens]

I only take issue when people suggest that white lite is actively harmful (yes I see this on facebook often).

I believe that a lot of these people saying 'white light is harmful' are not fully aware of just how much blue light white LEDs give off (especially the 'Cool Whites' that are so often used in arrays). And since they have a blue channel that is normally cranked up, they are potentially flooding the aquarium with high amounts of PUR (photoinhibition and all it's associated issues for the coral is then a real possibility), even though they may be reading typical reef keeping PAR levels. IMO, for most reef aquarists these days using typical LED arrays it is safer to incrementally decrease the blue channel as the white channel is increased.

 

[rgulrich]

Some light reading.

I really don't like the Windex look myself, and have used the "build the blue as a foundation" approach since the early 80's, adding the remainder of the spectra for appearance purposes - including point-source glitter lines.

I believe the DIscussion portion of the attached paper is applicable here.
"The spectral quality of light is a key driver of photosynthesis and photoadaptation in Stylophora pistillata colonies from different depths in the Red Sea"

Also, this one may be of interest:
Red Light Represses the Photophysiology of the Scleractinian Coral Stylophora pistillata

Red Light Represses the Photophysiology of the Scleractinian Coral Stylophora pistillata

Light spectrum plays a key role in the biology of symbiotic corals, with blue light resulting in higher coral growth, zooxanthellae density, chlorophyll a content and photosynthesis rates as compared to red light. However, it is still unclear whether ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And this one:
Effects of LED Light Illumination on the Growth, Digestive Enzymes, and Photoacclimation of Goniopora columna in Captivity

Effects of LED Light Illumination on the Growth, Digestive Enzymes, and Photoacclimation of Goniopora columna in Captivity

Coral aquaculture is a new industry, which is of great importance to the sustainable development of coral reefs and meeting commercial needs. Light sources are crucial for the growth of corals because zooxanthellae provide them with essential nutrients ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hope these research papers add constructively to the discussion.

Cheers,
Ray

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Totally anecdotal, but I have always found that white light spurs growth in my corals. Blues make them look nice and colour up, but white really helps with growth.

I know some people grow under strictly blues, and I do tend to favour the blue look over a whiter look, but I always end up adding plenty of white to get the growth that I desire.

 

[djf91]

I have never seen a single hobbyist reef that is an "accurate depiction of a coral reef", tbh. Reefing is a hobby and everyone does it differently. I am not a fan of the windex look but many are. I only take issue when people suggest that white lite is actively harmful (yes I see this on facebook often).

No reef aquarium is going to be 100% accurate, but there are certainly those that look more accurate than others.

 

[Nonya]

I only take issue when people suggest that white lite is actively harmful (yes I see this on facebook often).

Really? Did they say which source is the culprit?

 

[Nonya]

No reef aquarium is going to be 100% accurate, but there are certainly those that look more accurate than others.

Depends on how you describe accurate. Lighting? Depth? Corals? Fish?

 

[rgulrich]

Depends on how you describe accurate. Lighting? Depth? Corals? Fish?

Hmm - I like the "enjoyable" part of accuracy perhaps...could we add that one to the list?
I like the fact that I don't have to restock my dwarf blue-leg hermits, money cowries, astrea snails, peppermint shrimp, and others - they quite happily reproduce on their own in aquarium. I haven't had a detectable spawning of coral, unless a pocillopora spp. growing spontaneously in a couple locations on the corner overflows counts. If I was shooting for "accuracy" I'd probably end up focusing on a mono-specific aquarium, as most of the coral I have in this reef could/would have a rather large footprint in the wild, and would easily occupy the 3X6 footprint of the 300.

Cheers,
Ray

 

[minus9]

I think Steve Weast’s tank is pretty close to natural. But again, it’s subjective.

 

[Nonya]

Hmm - I like the "enjoyable" part of accuracy perhaps...could we add that one to the list?
I like the fact that I don't have to restock my dwarf blue-leg hermits, money cowries, astrea snails, peppermint shrimp, and others - they quite happily reproduce on their own in aquarium. I haven't had a detectable spawning of coral, unless a pocillopora spp. growing spontaneously in a couple locations on the corner overflows counts. If I was shooting for "accuracy" I'd probably end up focusing on a mono-specific aquarium, as most of the coral I have in this reef could/would have a rather large footprint in the wild, and would easily occupy the 3X6 footprint of the 300.

Cheers,
Ray

My wrasse, unfortunately, keeps tiny mollusks and crustaceans in check.
In a perfect world, "accurate" to me would be to have a HUGE tank to hold an actual simulated Red Sea reef--corals, shoaling fish and all.

 

[djf91]

My wrasse, unfortunately, keeps tiny mollusks and crustaceans in check.
In a perfect world, "accurate" to me would be to have a HUGE tank to hold an actual simulated Red Sea reef--corals, shoaling fish and all.

Yes, sometimes I imagine what it’d be like to turn the Georgia Aquariums large display into a coral reef with varying depths, microbiomes of coral, massive wave machines, probly natural sunlight, etc…

 

[damsels are not mean]

Really? Did they say which source is the culprit?

No, just something I picked up from being in reefing groups. Those are really a mess LOL even more than any other forum. Lots of the blind leading the blind. It's almost entirely newbies and most of the "experts" are really still newbies themselves.

 

[damsels are not mean]

I think Steve Weast’s tank is pretty close to natural. But again, it’s subjective.

No reef aquarium is going to be 100% accurate, but there are certainly those that look more accurate than others.

I think we might disagree what accurate means here. Obviously our tanks are not real reefs nor do we really shoot for a real reef. All the dead coral in between the live ones, the predators, the sandstorms and plankton blooms, the sand littered with frags from previous hurricanes, etc. are things we avoid in our tanks. Steve Weast was just on reef therapy where he described his aquariums as "an artistic depiction of nature" and that is also what I seek. There is a difference between an artistic depiction of nature (not "accurate" really) and trying to actually replicate nature.