Metal Halides are the bomb

[A. grandis]

Talking about metal halide / efficiency / colors/ 6500K Iwasaki bulbs.

Edit: What he didn't know back then is that the MH reflector actually distributes the light much better for the system as a whole in comparison to LEDs. That is actually a huge plus for the halides.

 

[oreo54]

Talking about metal halide / efficiency / colors/ 6500K Iwasaki bulbs.

Sorry my "exaggeration" to make a point wasn't "the best" thing but again.. Growth vs looks..
Boomcorals words.

Longtime iwasaki user. Many of the corals in the actual pics on my site were grown under iwasaki 65’s on m80 ballasts.
There is no denying they work tremendously well at growing and pulling color out of Sps. They are just visually quite unflattering.
I wouldn’t use them over a display. But they are amazing bulbs to be sure.

MY point was you have growth and you have the "box" you sit and look at. The 2 aren't always compatible.
Maybe you should try some high CRI white LEd's to get that magic back.

I just want to put here what I've said many times, but just for the sake of this thread.
The very best bulbs I've used in terms of growth was the Iwasaki 6500K with some actinic blue tubes.
No bulb will grow corals better than Iwasaki 6500K IMO. The zoas were totally crazy!!!
Color wise the tank looked like a tide pool though.
I had a 55 gal with 2 X 250W Iwasaki bulbs and 2 actinic blue tubes over it back in the day. Hehe!!!

Now... talking about T5s: the very best combo for growth on a 6 bulb fixture IMO would be 3 X 6500K and 3 X Blue Plus bulbs IMO.
Another combo one could try would be: 1 X 65ooK, 1 X Coral Plus, 1 X True Actinic and 3 X Blue Plus or blue Actinic bulbs.
I don't need to grow my zoas fast because they are already growing out of the water!! LOL
I've got 3 X Blue Plus, 2 X Coral Plus and 1 true actinic bulbs and absolutely love it. Perfect growth and original natural pigmentation on the polyps.

There are so many possibilities of combination for T5s!!

That story that most of the corals in the hobby comes from "blue water" isn't a rule at all!!
People can say whatever they want and keep their tanks blue to prevent excess algae growth, but they can't say that they see those corals only in "blue water".
The most amazing coral colors are found in shallower waters!! Part of it is due to protective pigments and proteins, right? So...

Grandis.

Still waiting for you to correct my other errors so I don't repeat them..

 

[A. grandis]

Tell me what fact I got wrong...
Did I EVER imply one needs to use LED's above any other light source?

You are right though.. getting too personal and ...pointless.

WHICH points don't you agree with?
I assume my first post set you off.

QUALITY of halides will always bit ANY LED in the world!
UV and IR besides the great distribution and efficiency of watts per PAR, like Mr. Paletta well said.
People love talk about PAR... only part of the equation.
Spectrum well distributed from a good halide reflector will show why this thread has it's title. Most tanks suffering from bad lighting are suffering because of the lack of understanding of the real needs of the organisms they keep. They come from an environment that has certain qualities that should be offered in a closed system. And people wonder why their colonies are growing weird and loosing their pigments after spending so much money on their LEDs. Pucks? Seriously?

I shouldn't be talking to you anymore. You made me quite upset here today.

 

[oreo54]

QUALITY of halides will always bit ANY LED in the world!
UV and IR besides the great distribution and efficiency of watts per PAR, like Mr. Paletta well said.
People love talk about PAR... only part of the equation.
Spectrum well distributed from a good halide reflector will show why this thread has it's title. Most tanks suffering from bad lighting are suffering because of the lack of understanding of the real needs of the organisms they keep. They come from an environment that has certain qualities that should be offered in a closed system. And people wonder why their colonies are growing weird and loosing their pigments after spending so much money on their LEDs. Pucks? Seriously?

I shouldn't be talking to you anymore. You made me quite upset here today.

Well I NEVER ever said PAR was the only part of the equation.

They come from an environment that has certain qualities that should be offered in a closed system.

This is what the ocean looks like at 1 meter depth.
Which one of your halides look like it?

it's turning aqua green in color.. Go deeper and its Windex colored..
As Tuillo said.. "Show me the spectrum".

LED:

Few people actually want "natural" they want nature exaggerated..

And people wonder why their colonies are growing weird and loosing their pigments after spending so much money on their LEDs. Pucks? Seriously?

Se here we have some common ground.. BUT it is the system NOT the LED's.. Some can't seem to grasp the fine points I guess.
Why do you think Phillips and Radion worked on err "distribution" (at the cost of PAR mind you)? for kicks?

 

[MJ in Boise]

Show me a 20k 315watt ceramic halide. Anything else is either ancient tech, or new overpriced led trash.

 

[A. grandis]

It's ironic how people are so worried about their pockets talking about electricity bill...
They should get a simple ATI Sunpower fixtures that will last more than a decade with basically no maintenance and supply a much better quality light to their corals than Radion with the diffuser or even Phillips, that actually try to simulate the results of T5s. The cost of the bulbs are no match if you think of the initial cost of those LEDs that actually won't last for a decade.
Any "color" of halide from 6500K to 20000K will offer the qualities to produce better results than any LED.

 

[MJ in Boise]

A sunpower is a waste of money as well imo. A hort fixture costs 1/5 and puts out 90% of the par while also lasting 10+ years. But they look good so spend 5x as much.

 

[oreo54]

Show me a 20k 315watt ceramic halide. Anything else is either ancient tech, or new overpriced led trash.

curious.. Where would one get such a bulb?

 

[A. grandis]

A sunpower is a waste of money as well imo. A hort fixture costs 1/5 and puts out 90% of the par while also lasting 10+ years. But they look good so spend 5x as much.

Only bad thing is that most hort fixtures will get rusty.

 

[MJ in Boise]

curious.. Where would one get such a bulb?

I'm still waiting for them to make one.

 

[oreo54]

I'm still waiting for them to make one.

So unicorns and fairies.. Instead of building bulbs for a billion $ Cannabis/hort industry (which don't need them at that high K) they will make 100's for corals AND sell them for cheap.. ;)
Sorry for the sarchasm but you see one could also be waiting for a phosphor pack for a violet LED base (and that violet base outputs 200+ (currently realistic in blue) "lumens" /watt and last 100,00hours (also possible w/ proper cooling)) that is also "coral specific" thus eliminating disco once and for all..
Point is don't hold your breath on either.

 

[MJ in Boise]

Only bad thing is that most hort fixtures will get rusty.

'Most' anything will rust over the top of a salt tank given a couple years.

 

[MJ in Boise]

So unicorns and fairies.. Instead of building bulbs for a billion $ Cannibis/hort industry they will make 100's for corals.. ;)
Sorry for the sarchasm but you see one could also be waiting for a phosphor pack for a violet LED base that is also "coral specific" thus eliminating disco once and for all..
Point is don't hold your breath on either.

The 20k ceramic halide is definitely a unicorn and will never happen. But one can dream of amazing things.

 

[oreo54]

The 20k ceramic halide is definitely a unicorn and will never happen. But one can dream of amazing things.

Sooooooooo true.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I tried CMH systems in my other endeavors and didn't find them all that impressive. They do have a great spectrum, but they punch wasn't there in terms of penetration.

Anyways, i do love my halides but in terms of informing others how well they work.. i have better things to do with my time.

 

[MJ in Boise]

Agreed cmh doesn't pack the punch of a dimmable 1100 watt double end gavita, but they are efficient, and would replace a 400 halide with better par and a nice power cost savings. The 630s do get very close to the output of a 1000watt 'old man' hps though.

 

[maroun.c]

Guys please keep it friendly and let's refrain from personal attacks. Having a different opinion and discussing it is perfectly fine but personal attacks won't be tolerated.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Well, this old man owned a 8,000 sq ft warehouse with 200k watts of flower rooms. :) We ran single ended but switched two double ended gavitas

Those days are over though. One tires of paying there $12,000 power bill in 20s. Lol

 

[robbyg]

'Most' anything will rust over the top of a salt tank given a couple years.

That is completely false!
My Aquatronica LEDs are made from solid aluminum and are passively cooled. They have been mounted in my sealed hood for five years and there is zero rust or oxidation on them.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Technically, it is not completely false. Your light is just not similar to "most" things.