Micro and nano bubble tank treatment

[Squamosa]

This just in...'In a new study, most marine mammals were found to exhale carbon monoxide at levels equivalent to or greater than the amount exhaled by a several-packs-a-day smoker. The research led by researchers at Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego is part of a broader investigation into how marine mammals’ naturally high levels of circulating carbon monoxide might protect tissues in low- or no-oxygen environments, such as during extended dives. The findings could help researchers refine approaches for carbon monoxide-based therapies in humans, which are currently being tested in clinical trials'.

https://scripps.ucsd.edu/news/what-elephant-seals-can-tell-us-about-using-carbon-monoxide-heal

Anybody want to give this a try here................???

Sorry, but I had to put this in

 

[Cruz_Arias]

This was shared by Rich @Thales on the other MBs NBs thread.

Thanks Richard

http://www.reefthreads.com/?p=3158

 

[Squamosa]

It would seem that good debate and academic discourse is again being hijacked by those that seek to subvert all the good work that has been done here!

So against the spirit of @Diesel, I will welcome all PM's from those that want to ask questions and are genuinely interested in what we are trying to achieve

I thank you

 

[ritter6788]

I don't think I've seen more drama over anything in this hobby and we're talking about bubbles in a fish tank. I try my hardest not to have a bubble floating in my display but if someone else wants their tank to look like a freshly opened can of Sprite after being bounced of the pavement in the summer time I really don't care and I don't see why anyone else cares either. Kids blow bubbles in their chocolate milk everyday but I don't see debates about improvements in flavor or not. Might just be time to let it go.

 

[Diesel]

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? ...........exactly! "

Ok, back to topic.
Did shot some pics on my build thread to document what our friend from down under @Squamosa already did.
Will post them tomorrow.

 

[Tautog]

Hey Squamosa, that Scripps research is in theory. What researcher knows how many packs my clownfish smokes anyway. As a diver descends to the bottom, his or her air gets compressed. Just under water a foot, your body is feeling over 28 lbs. of pressure per square inch. And for every 33 feet, another 14.7 lbs. of pressure is added to your body. I dove to 185 feet years ago, the pressure was intense, and I can't dive that deep anymore, nor is it advisable to do so. A diver uses more air the deeper you go, and therefore has a shorter dive the deeper you go. When a diver rises from the dive, at any depth, the compressed air now is expanding in the lungs. The diver must exhale to release this air constantly, just like whales do. Fish don't have that capability, and get the bends, eyes blow out of their sockets and stomach gets pushed out of their mouths. If the diver doesn't exhale, they also get the bends, and blood flows out of your ears.
And that's why I smoke cigars. Believe it, or ask a diver yourself. I posted my own experiment in the " Scrubbing bubble" thread. Page 35, check it out.

 

[Squamosa]

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? ...........exactly! "

Ok, back to topic.
Did shot some pics on my build thread to document what our friend from down under @Squamosa already did.
Will post them tomorrow.

We've just made another version of our micro-bubble maker and will post video of its parts and hopefully how effective it is in the tank at producing those bubbles.

Will post later too

 

[Squamosa]

What researcher knows how many packs my clownfish smokes anyway

I don't know but we need to find out, clownfish mortality is already high enough and what about the pregnant moms??

Don't they smoke Cohibas though?

And for every 33 feet, another 14.7 lbs. of pressure is added to your body. I dove to 185 feet years ago, the pressure was intense, and I can't dive that deep anymore, nor is it advisable to do so. A diver uses more air the deeper you go, and therefore has a shorter dive the deeper you go. When a diver rises from the dive, at any depth, the compressed air now is expanding in the lungs. The diver must exhale to release this air constantly, just like whales do. Fish don't have that capability, and get the bends, eyes blow out of their sockets and stomach gets pushed out of their mouths. If the diver doesn't exhale, they also get the bends, and blood flows out of your ears.
And that's why I smoke cigars. Believe it, or ask a diver yourself.

It's been awhile in the water for me, but here is a sampling from a past life

 

[FranklinDattein]

How do you deal with salt creep?

 

[Squamosa]

How do you deal with salt creep?

A good question

Mu sump, that sees the majority of bubbles popping, doesn't seem to suffer from this, but I have salt creep there anyway from other equipment.

In the DT, if we only produced nano-bubbles, we would, in theory, not see any salt creep (as the bubbles are supposed to move around the water haphazardly and not rise and pop), however, as I produce mainly (still a contentious issue) fine micro-bubbles and I bubble at night, when fans are off or very low, I have observed a fine aerosol mist above the water surface.
My lights are also 40 cm from the water surface and are cleaned every fortnight regardless. I have only seen a fine salt layer start to form on my euro bracing, which is wiped down every fortnight too and only where the gyre current in my tank disperses the water bubbles too (the right half of the tank receives the brunt of the mist).

I have been thinking of placing a PVC sheet covering, over this side of the tank only, it might help?

For me, salt creep is no big thing

 

[Reefahholic]

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? ...........exactly! "

Ok, back to topic.
Did shot some pics on my build thread to document what our friend from down under @Squamosa already did.
Will post them tomorrow.

If a man speaks in the woods where no woman is around, is he still wrong???

 

[Squamosa]

If a man speaks in the woods where no woman is around, is he still wrong???

Apparently.....yes

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Hey Squamosa, that Scripps research is in theory. What researcher knows how many packs my clownfish smokes anyway. As a diver descends to the bottom, his or her air gets compressed. Just under water a foot, your body is feeling over 28 lbs. of pressure per square inch. And for every 33 feet, another 14.7 lbs. of pressure is added to your body. I dove to 185 feet years ago, the pressure was intense, and I can't dive that deep anymore, nor is it advisable to do so. A diver uses more air the deeper you go, and therefore has a shorter dive the deeper you go. When a diver rises from the dive, at any depth, the compressed air now is expanding in the lungs. The diver must exhale to release this air constantly, just like whales do. Fish don't have that capability, and get the bends, eyes blow out of their sockets and stomach gets pushed out of their mouths. If the diver doesn't exhale, they also get the bends, and blood flows out of your ears.
And that's why I smoke cigars. Believe it, or ask a diver yourself. I posted my own experiment in the " Scrubbing bubble" thread. Page 35, check it out.

How did you set up the "scrubbing bubbles" system?
It wasn't clear on bubble size, location of air pump, or type of air diffuser you were using.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What are the thoughts on power heads? On or off? Or does it even matter?

For oxygenation/aeration, or in conjunction with bubbles?

I don't have any thoughts on what bubbles may be accomplishing or what is best with them, but powerheads that cause water motion at the surface are increasing aeration and generally that is a good thing (with the possible exception of if the home air has excessive CO2).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Or what about just reduced PH swings? I wonder if you could find another way to reduce PH swings and see if the response is similar to the micro-bubble response? Also, what mechanism could lead to the reduced PH swings...
.

The things that would reduce or eliminate the pH swing are all impacting either the buffering or the CO2 level changes:

1. Reduced photosynthesis/respiration (meaning fewer tank creatures, less light, etc.)
2. Timed consumption of CO2 (limewater/kalkwasser or sodium carbonate at night, reverse lit refugia, etc.)
3. Timed addition of CO2 (e.g., running a CaCO3/CO2 reactor only during the day)
4. Less feeding (means less metabolized food and less in tank CO2 production; timing may be important, but depends on the creature and how long it digests food).
5. Higher alkalinity (14 dKH will have half the pH swing compared to 7 dKH, everything else unchanged).
6. Higher pH reduces the pH swing since seawater is much better buffered at higher pH (8.4) than at lower pH (7.9)
7. Higher borate will reduce the swing even at the same pH and total alk since it is a better buffer at tank pH per unit of alk than is bicarbonate (Seachem salt mix used to add a lot of extra borate for this reason)
8. More effective CO2 exchange with the air, assuming the air itself is not changing CO2 levels (not true in some locations, like a bedroom)

FWIW, some things will raise or lower pH, but do not necessarily impact the swing. A refugium lit 24/7, for example, or a CaCO3/CO2 reactor running 24/7 or a CO2 scrubber on a skimmer inlet.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Apparently so!

OK, so the outside air apparently has a lot lower CO2 level than the air normally around your tank.

 

[new2mac]

Frankly I haven't expected "bubble" subject to make 16 pages of discussion. Several months ago I did try wood airstone to return pump bubbling. That thing ran at night time for a week with no positive effect on anything in the tank so the whole project was scrapped. On a side note I don't think wood airstone is capable of real nano size bubbles, probably micro. Not sure if itwould make any difference though.

 

[Squamosa]

Well here it is, our latest version of the micro-bubble generator.



The little unit in operation being run on a Sicce PSK 600


Enjoy

All videos courtesy of Brian Mason.

 

[Thales]

I am still not seeing much evidence of this being beneficial. The pH graph that squamosa posted matches graphs of regular pH swings, except the high point is in a weird place - but there is no baseline. I haven't seen any evidence that coral sliming is helpful, rather the two studies that were posted about that showed that sliming has a big biological cost and is generally a stress response. The idea that lasers can point out microbubbles seems to show that laser will point out any particulate in the tank and that other particulate looks just like bubbles in the beam. I also wonder how many people like new2mac are being ignored - people who say they tried it but saw no effect - and I am worried the echo chamber is in full effect. The most concerning thing to me is the portrayal that people are scientifically going about testing this while at the same time demeaning questions that don't seem to outwardly support the idea.
Again, I would love everything being attributed to this 'method' to be true, but I am not seeing much support other than 'it doesn't seem to hurt anything'. There is a lot of work going into producing the perfect bubbles or device to make bubbles, but little work showing that it is actually helpful.

 

[jpontier212]

For oxygenation/aeration, or in conjunction with bubbles?

I don't have any thoughts on what bubbles may be accomplishing or what is best with them, but powerheads that cause water motion at the surface are increasing aeration and generally that is a good thing (with the possible exception of if the home air has excessive CO2).

In conjunction with bubbles i meant.