Micro and nano bubble tank treatment

[brandon429]

Cruz

Would you say after doing the bubble work in larger tanks that you can beat dino invasions repeatably with it, that's a tall order if so but something has to give...current state of invasion is unacceptable. That's the angle I have to be sold on for buy in. Harnessing it to cure dinos would be a big deal






If someone claims to have a good 10-15 year hobby wide lfs std scourge tackled, that consistently, that's needed in the hobby it's a game changer.

As easy as bubbles are to harness, people with dino issues have an arrangement attainable to end something that ruins tanks if it's true, and consistent.



Pretty much only that claim regarding bubbling has me skeptical...It is being claimed repeatedly in posts now as these benefits are recounted among bubblers, curious regarding your take. Hype or fact

Dinos are about to be gone due to only bubbling and various export arrangements. Non chemical, abiotic kill prediction is being offered now as dino cures.

I don't have Facebook so data there isn't seen by me but we need web threads as supporting tests for bubbling curing dinos

The Facebook results aren't aged enough to show sustained kill, resurgence, and it won't include negative outcomes like threads will. But if it's true, the fb posts could be just remarking on upcoming change in the hobby. Can't wait to see

A beauty of web threads as cure claim filters is that most all posters want your method to fail so they can hammer you online for making a prediction that didn't stick

opposite motivations to posting in the aura that is FB and already strong bubble hugging lol

I'm not discounting though, I know there is potential. I'd like to see the web thread version started, the live test bed.

Test submissions have to come from new entrants, in a thread we can watch unfold, from those who are posting for dino invasion help and will try bubbles. I would for sure recommend people hold off on dumping peroxide in dino tanks and try bubbles first, peroxide has burn factor bubbling is for sure safer

But results, in threads, drives the main dino methods
Peroxide
Dinoxal
UV
Probiotics like mb7 algone etc
Blackouts pH adjusts and GFO attacks
They all have an efficacy of about 20%, currently nobody cures 80% those go on unfixed to search the other methods

If we corral a few starter dino invasion tanks in a new thread, would you be able to make custom jobs off before pics- considering tank details and feedback on specs- and guide them through bubble installs and any arrangement of additional actions that will cure and sustain dino invasions?

If not, that's no slight-I cannot

20% is best for peroxide dosers too so far, I just want to know if you could wield a dino invasion thread like that. They are humblers

 

[Squamosa]

people with dino issues have an arrangement attainable to end something that ruins tanks if it's true

I don't know why this is touted and to say that bubbling somehow "cures" dinos is somewhat misleading and mischievous at best. You are right, good hard data has to start flowing in, @Cruz_Arias should be the first to provide this evidence and if he has already or will do so in the future then I will be the first to apologise to him!
I've never had dinos and so can't comment that it fixes, removes, cures or makes it go away. The same effort that is being put into experiments involving H2O2 should also be done with the bubbles and dinos, I believe!

new entrants, in a thread we can watch unfold

I think we've all seen how that will unfold, there are too many personalities, egos, agendas and negativity out there for that ever to happen. It has to move into the field of peer reviewed scientific publication now, hopefully it will get the funding it deserves!

people hold off on dumping peroxide in dino tanks and try bubbles first

I completely agree! I've seen it time and time again, when as an example, people are given carbon dosing schedules but after a few days look at their tank, see no improvement and then proceed (against all advice and reason) to double, triple or quadruple the dose to see if something happens!
Can you imagine a bottle of peroxide tipped into your tank? The results are to ghastly to think about!

 

[brandon429]

the results are typically harmless from a bottle dumped we have a thousand examples of overdoses lol but I see your point. The results gained by bubbling on dinos simply need to be localized somewhere so we don't have to wait for articles, can watch trends, we can sift through the type and consider pics.

I don't mind personalities varying in the threads, makes for fun defensive science and yes some derailleurs too

Our work with peroxide in threads vastly beats any peer reviewed work only with regard to saving tanks...to the tune of thousands of saved tanks while peer reviewed peroxide works saved zero but detail nicely the physical mechanisms. No peer reviewed work built the list of sensitive and tolerant animals...well forum peers did~
We got it in reverse now... anyone writing formal peroxide articles will have to consider the threads now, forced acknowledgment of anecdote is awesome too. Peer reviewed peroxide works help to understand chemical interactions etc, not downing them, just placing their contributions to peroxide work as not much, accountability square on the peroxide thread participants.

We tested bold peroxide claims last seven years, we do cure many dino tanks, but not the majority... now is CA's turn!

 

[Thales]

Guys - who is asking for formal peer reviewed papers on aquarium stuff?

 

[Squamosa]

anyone writing formal peroxide articles will have to consider the threads now

You do know that will never happen, you will be relegated to an acknowledgement footnote in an academic paper, if you are lucky and some other scientists name/s will command the coveted first or last position on the authorship list. Academics futures depend on the mantra 'publish or perish', their future funding and promotion on to tenure demand this. There is a finite amount of pers.obs. you can include in your work!

Unless you remove the lack of control/s, observations by people with poor skills in this regard, lack of a reproducible method, human bias, lack of statistical power and see the evidence pass through a board of expert scientific reviewers, the work will always come back as 'rejected with significant corrections', at best! I wouldn't give it the time of day and would always block its advance on to any sort of publication!
Everything in this thread and others, is not worth the screen it is displayed on. It must now pass all the steps mentioned above or it is useless!
Just because more and more people (like me) are shouting its benefits, doesn't make it more believable,the evidence is definitely not clear.

 

[brandon429]

there will always be an ongoing preference divide in algae control war materials sourcing. there are peer reviewed articles, and then there's curing tanks and earning after pics and getting hammered live time if your posits don't work out as the article writer. the thread becomes the article, and even better it has the author responding on his toes, or not.



safe zone writers, posters have your back and are accountable in the large threads for work being done. remark upon that, leave it out of your article, we don't mind. all we do is fix tanks. depends not on anothers acknowledgement

I enjoy reading formal works about peroxide mechanisms always
B

 

[Squamosa]

leave it out of your article,

Acknowledge, never leave out!

I believe the race in Europe and China to build a micro-bubbler has already started!
This should be good

 

[brandon429]

there is a big chance the bubbles do change the game, they are naturally associated-no holdfast snots-dislodge and remove is what we do in siphon runs (we don't dose peroxide to wrecked tanks, we clean them first, dose the clean tank, full prevention mode)

many people are claiming that not changing tank water, experimenting with this or that nutrient continuance or removal is affecting dino invasions, and bubbling doesn't seem to handle that angle much its more of an export angle im reading so far...so siphoning should work the same? im not sure how removal of target mass via bubbles, or by siphon hose mats with no extra bubbles, has growback prevention inclusions. about ten pages on a go thread would reveal it, however ~

 

[reefer45]

Look who is talking crap about the R2R community.

https://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/skeptical-reefkeeping/192900-nanobbules-strawman-arguments.html

 

[brandon429]

I still take it as good. you want a literal tidal wave of opposition to press through with stated proofs, this sets the correct staging for claims. I hope posters like Thales/Randy et al carve up anything I ever type so I can take that back to my reef and succeed. same for all posts in support or in opposition to a claim, let the filtering begin

if someone else is offering a better way, and can press through the opposition, what makes it through is gold.

 

[Squamosa]

what makes it through is gold

I sincerely hope so, for all the methodologies out there.

Keep up the good fight!

 

[Diesel]

I love my bubbles.

 

[VBMike]

I had been battling (what I assumed to be) dinos in a biocube 14 for months. Brown, bubbly, snotty goo on all of the rocks. I siphoned it out every time I did a water change. I had made up my mind I was just going to nuke it, but had been too lazy to actually do it.

Well, after seeing this thread, I decided to try it. Four days later, they're pretty much gone!! A couple days ago, I took a turkey baster and blew off the last of the remaining "snots". Not sure if this is a complete kill or if they have just gone into some kind of hiding, but the tank certainly looks better and the coral has huge polyp extension... no apparent complaints. Just low end softies... a small hammer, mushrooms, Kenya tree, pink star polyp, etc. As a bonus, the water is crystal clear!

I run a wooden airstone in the back pump compartment for 4 hours in the middle of the night. I already had the pump, wood diffuser and timer so this set me back all of 10 minutes and $0.00.

Thanks to everyone for this hot tip... I need to figure out how to implement this in my big tanks.

 

[brandon429]

Post in support +1 noted. To be invader free or controlled is like getting to reef all new again. I never thought I'd be free of invasive red gelidium.

Need pics for genus ID where poss

some of those golden brown invasions lately weren't getting IDd by anyone-strange invaders they were

meaning not dinos sometimes, we think pics make or break the tie- in but it's still great to know any invader was tamed. The way you accessed the bubbles without much required is key detail, getting the mechanism in place

People want to replicate that action to see if results cluster

 

[VBMike]

Need pics for genus ID where possr

There's nothing to get a pic of so far! If they creep back in, I'll definitely get one.

Perhaps it wasn't dinos... but definitely persistent. Golden brown and little trapped bubbles in the snot. If was cyano, it was different than other cyano I have seen.

 

[brandon429]

and all that matters is gone gone for sure. people dumped myriad chems trying to curtail that invader whichever it may be.

 

[Diesel]

I like it a lot to hear success stories like this.
It's cheap and no rocket science as everybody can try this.

 

[Thales]

Look who is talking crap about the R2R community.

https://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/skeptical-reefkeeping/192900-nanobbules-strawman-arguments.html

LOL - you know Cruz has been doing the same thing on Facebook.

I also think it is incredibly important to point out that that that thread is not talking crap about the R2R community. I seriously don't understand the reason for so much spin.

 

[reefer45]

LOL - you know Cruz has been doing the same thing on Facebook.

Who's cruz? Lol. Link?

 

[Espramour]

is that good for brown jelly? My torch will die