Mindstream

[robbyg]

I saw the tear down a while back but nothing else. Not even really sure why they did that one to be honest.

I think I said the wrong name. I think it is Reef Nation that has 4 videos.
I looked and I can only find two from Reef Builders.

 

[bam123]

Wow I have moved from sabotaging them by saying I am out of here and getting a refund to now being an employee trying to drum up business. Which one is it? And yes I am out.

Robbyg… I enjoyed your input. It allowed me to make more of an informed decision on buying a Mindstream as well as trying to get a refund. I don't think the majority of people on here are out to get the company. I know I was not. I was very pro mindstream in the beginning, and if they work it out will likely buy one in the future.

 

[robbyg]

Robbyg… I enjoyed your input. It allowed me to make more of an informed decision on buying a Mindstream as well as trying to get a refund. I don't think the majority of people on here are out to get the company. I know I was not. I was very pro mindstream in the beginning, and if they work it out will likely buy one in the future.

I would buy a used one for full price tomorrow if I knew for sure I could get a disk supply and the servers would keep working. I had a guy PM me two days ago and says if his system goes down he has no idea how he is going to go back to manual testing. I am in that same camp of people that have been playing with these stupid reagents long enough to be completely sick of the whole process.

 

[MnFish1]

I decided a few days ago it was best I kept my mouth shut about Mindstream. It seems like the more I say is the more some people like to twist it into ammunition to go after them. I have had several conversations with one of the employees before and after the silence started two plus weeks ago.

Most of it was confidential so I am not going discuss any of that with anybody. The only reason he talked to me was that he could see I was also from the industry and was not judgmental because I understood the problems a startup goes through. There are other people on this forum who know more than I do, but they have been silent which is probably what I should have done at the start. Instead I felt that offering some communication of the bits I could talk about would ease peoples anxiety.

I can tell you that what one person on here said about water testing companies going after them is absolutely true. I had heard that from the same employee before the long silence. He said they had been under constant attack by certain companies who saw the MS as a major long term threat to their business. I can also say that all the Blame people are heaping on the CEO and Employees of Mindstream is completely misplaced. All of the people who work for the company have been trying their hardest to fulfill the promises made. The main problem I am told was that when you have something that was viewed skeptically for years and thought to be a loss by nervous investors and is then launched and on the day of the launch it brings in a couple of thousand orders, suddenly people start to see dollar signs and chaos soon develops amongst the Titans.

The last communication I got was that something wonderful was probably going to be announce last week Tuesday. They stated that it was not a done deal and it could fall apart and if so it would need to be started again.

I have had former colleagues of mine who left secure jobs at our company and went to work for startup companies. Many of them ended up in this same kind of position and I know one of the root causes is that there is a sickness among a small group of people on social media who all seem to rooting for failure and feel personal satisfaction in seeing something other people built get burned to the ground just so they can say they were right!

I am not into that kind of thinking as I have known people who worked for these startups I know how devastated they get when people like us make our little jokes and they in turn loose their jobs and have an uncertain futures going forward. Like so many of you on this forum I have just stayed on point and tried to be only critical of their lack of communication and tried to give them time to work this out.

I am only making this post because I have seen how these kinds of caustic threads will typically kill everything in there path. My feeling is that any deal or ideas that have come up to solve the problems are most likely going to be gutted due to the damage done to the products reputation. Even though I would personally stick it out if something positive was announced, I have become doubtful it will.

I am not saying that MS is blameless in all of this. I am saying that the people who actually did the work and ran the company can only do what they are allowed to do by those people holding the strings. So given all of this I thought that the Ethical thing to do is come out and say to you guys that I am personally getting out of this one on Monday. It will truly suck if something changes and I have to join the back of the line but my gut feeling based on my last conversation is that things did not go as planned.

I am truly saddened by this. Not only for all the staff at SAI who put seven years of their lives into this but I am also sad to see one of the most innovative and useful products that I have seen released in my 35 years of reef keeping probably get boxed away for years before someone is able to get the patents and then resurrect it again. Yes we will have reagent and probe systems with pumps and calibration fluids etc. but the concept of just clicking in one disk every month and your done, was IMO the perfect solution.

Unlike some other buyers I had no illusions that the first, second or even third version of the disks would be perfect. I did know that if they just got a proper start and had some reasonable success they would have nailed the problem in a matter of months. I can tell you that they did have a few tanks that behaved like @OLDREEFER44 and they identified the problem and had a solution that was being tested with very promising results just before things started to go to hell.

Im hoping that this will work out. It is a fantastic technology - and I have every faith in it. But - when the company stops emailing/answering calls from supporters - for me - I said enough. Frankly - as a company they should have admitted as such - all it would have taken was a comment". those that ordered in July were sorry our delivery Time is xxx. for those who ordered in August its is xxxxx For September, xxxxx. No answer is not acceptable

I called my credit card company initiated a dispute (after multiple unanswered calls./emals) and was asked 'do I want the merchandise or a credit'. I answered - the merchandise'. The credit card company replied and credited my account - and requested that the merchant respond. I never cancelled the order - just asked my card company to deal with it (because I was tired of doing it). I hope it works out ok (which means I get my mindstream - and they get their money).

 

[MnFish1]

A whole lot of speculation with very few facts. If there are no assets left then there is nothing to recover. To prove intent would cost us taxpayers far more than it's worth. Unfortunately happens all the time with company's big and small.

You are wrong - credit companies offer recovery. So there's that. Or am I wrong?

 

[robbyg]

You are wrong - credit companies offer recovery. So there's that. Or am I wrong?

Honestly I don't think Credit Card companies give a crap. They seem to either just write it off or maybe they have insurance for it. Either way I wish I had done it like you. She only asked if I wanted a refund and I said yes. She said it would take 30 days and then it will show up on my statement.

 

[Oldreefer44]

You are wrong - credit companies offer recovery. So there's that. Or am I wrong?

I am referring to the asserts of the company in case of a lawsuit, bankruptcy etc. Not CC issues which are between the CC issuer and cardholder.

 

[MnFish1]

I am referring to the asserts of the company in case of a lawsuit, bankruptcy etc. Not CC issues which are between the CC issuer and cardholder.

Right. but dont most people here (who put down a deposit) care about the possibility of getting threir money back if they dont get the product? I did. Thats why I posted what I did - My credit card temporarily credits my account - allowing the company to 'deliver'. If they do - I get my stuff - and they get my money. If not - I get my money. The biggest objection i'
ve heard here is 'they are keeping my money and I'm waiting'. I'm not waiting anymore. BTW - why did you return your monitor - if you answered - I didnt see it

 

[Oldreefer44]

Right. but dont most people here (who put down a deposit) care about the possibility of getting threir money back if they dont get the product? I did. Thats why I posted what I did - My credit card temporarily credits my account - allowing the company to 'deliver'. If they do - I get my stuff - and they get my money. If not - I get my money. The biggest objection i'
ve heard here is 'they are keeping my money and I'm waiting'. I'm not waiting anymore. BTW - why did you return your monitor - if you answered - I didnt see it

Documented more extensively on one of the many other threads but the primary issue was that the sensors did not stay clean over a month long period so the readings became less and less accurate over time.
As far as the patents go, unless James Clarke is an idiot, and he clearly isn't, he would likely have contractually obligated SAI to assign him ownership of them in case of bankruptcy, liquidation etc. just as he assigned them to SAI in the first place.

 

[User1]

I think I said the wrong name. I think it is Reef Nation that has 4 videos.
I looked and I can only find two from Reef Builders.

No worry. I did not mean to sound like I was questioning. I was honestly just wondering if info was out there :)

 

[User1]

I would buy a used one for full price tomorrow if I knew for sure I could get a disk supply and the servers would keep working. I had a guy PM me two days ago and says if his system goes down he has no idea how he is going to go back to manual testing. I am in that same camp of people that have been playing with these stupid reagents long enough to be completely sick of the whole process.

The issue I have with manually testing some reagents is the color change. I think we can all agree that if we get all of us in the same room together, and test at the same time, our numbers will probably be close but not the same :) That is why when I did test it was with the easier Hanna kits. I'm not going to lie.

Seems people are happy with the reef bot. You already know about the trident. GHL is what, February or so maybe? I think you have time to kick the can a bit and see what happens.

 

[MnFish1]

Honestly I don't think Credit Card companies give a crap. They seem to either just write it off or maybe they have insurance for it. Either way I wish I had done it like you. She only asked if I wanted a refund and I said yes. She said it would take 30 days and then it will show up on my statement.

Whether they 'give a crap' or not - the fact is - that people who have ordered from any company have recourse with their credit card company - thats why they charge 25 % interest - I was getting at those here who are suggesting that people who have ordered this product are just 'screwed'. In fact - there are a number of options. My option (hopefully - Is to get my mindstream). If not - I will get my money back.

 

[MnFish1]

Documented more extensively on one of the many other threads but the primary issue was that the sensors did not stay clean over a month long period so the readings became less and less accurate over time.
As far as the patents go, unless James Clarke is an idiot, and he clearly isn't, he would likely have contractually obligated SAI to assign him ownership of them in case of bankruptcy, liquidation etc. just as he assigned them to SAI in the first place.

I have no clue as to this investigatory journalism that seems to be going on - nor - am I sure why it would be. LOL anyone that placed an order has a recourse. lol:). its all getting silly

 

[MnFish1]

What I want - is a good monitoring system - can anyone give a good recommendation - I'm hoping that Mindstream can do it - I' just want multiple parameters measured - real time - Neptune (imo) is not reliable. No need for 1000 people to say - but they are - I dont agree. Is there a reliable alternative

 

[Joe Rice]

It is a fantastic technology - and I have every faith in it.

Is there ANYONE out there who has had one for two or three months and had it work consistently? It seems entirely possible to me that they never really got it working in other than perhaps ideal conditions in the lab.

The fact that it seemed to work at all (when a disk was first installed) is actually quite impressive from a purely technological point-of-view. But having an underlying technology is a long way from creating a market-ready product. For me, the biggest red flag was that they didn't have a beta-testing program and a set of users who could confirm that the product worked as advertised in real reef-tanks.

 

[Silver14SS]

Is there ANYONE out there who has had one for two or three months and had it work consistently? It seems entirely possible to me that they never really got it working in other than perhaps ideal conditions in the lab.

Maybe @lexinverts?

 

[Darrell Brady]

They say they had Beta Testers why didn't these problems come up then? SAI has been nothing but lies from the very beginning

 

[MnFish1]

They say they had Beta Testers why didn't these problems come up then? SAI has been nothing but lies from the very beginning

Hopefully you have documentation of that - or you're opening yourself up to a lawsuit - but maybe you're like that or are prepared

 

[MnFish1]

In the mean time. no one has answered - which monitor thats reliable - out there - now (except apex) which I think is neither - is a recommendation

 

[Joe Rice]

In the mean time. no one has answered - which monitor thats reliable - out there - now (except apex) which I think is neither - is a recommendation

Is it the Trident itself that you don't think is reliable or is it the Apex system as a whole?