Mindstream

[MnFish1]

Thanks. I did misread it. I agree and if I was one of those poor souls that have a brick or out 1000 dollars I wouldn’t be pleased

Unless you can provide different information - suggesting that credit cards do not take this type of issue into account - I apologetically say - you could be incorrect. I've provided information from the fTC

 

[MnFish1]

I can only speak for the last comment in that they aren't starting a new company, they are getting an established company to take over the product itself. I don't think that strategy would work in this case atall as every consumer out there would know it's either a reimagining Mindstream or the exact same one being released and it would never get off the ground if previous customers weren't satisfied in some way...

I disagree. if a large company took them over - with the backing - why would people not buy it ...??

 

[MnFish1]

I for one have some issues with the announcement. 1) It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know no money coming in means no money going out. 2) They clearly knew way before they stop taking orders that the titanic was sinking. 3) based on the limited reviews there were a number of issues so it wasn’t all roses. 4) the comment about starting a new company is a bit concerning as it historically a scheme for avoiding dealt from old company as old customer have no claim against the new company. I am glad they have surfaced. Time will tell if it’s all total crap.

I would be careful - in stating things you're not 'sure of'. I.e. 'THEY CLEARLY KJNEW WAY BEFORE THEY STOP TAKING ORDERS THAT THE TITANIC WAS SINKING'. You might be correct - but - for youre own good - I'm not sure I would be posting stuff like that as if it was fact unless you know it...?

 

[JoshH]

I disagree. if a large company took them over - with the backing - why would people not buy it ...??

If said larger company did absolutely nothing to compensate for all those that have been burned by it and are currently out hundreds or a thousand dollars. I don't see that product going very far leaving such a bad taste in people's mouths. I know I certainly wouldn't touch it and I as you know am all for this product coming back.

 

[adamsfour]

They clearly knew well before they stop sales that they we in a Cash Crunch and we’re using new pre-paid orders to keep them afloat. He even states that in his posting. I saw posting from people who ordered virtually on the day they opened sales and never got their units. My speculation is their investors were pressuring them to release them and now we see the results.

 

[SandJ]

When you said 'refunds won't be given' you really have no firsthand knowledge right>?

I am not the poster you are directing this towards, but I have asked for a refund and it has not been issued. Brian Degen clearly states in the email that is hopes another company will pick up the technology so they can pay people back. So I do not see them paying anyone back out of their pockets in the near future (or distant future to be honest).

And I feel like what they have done is fraud.
One definition of Fraud:

a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.

When I purchase a unit 8 weeks after release, and they know that they have not shipped out those units with a promised delivery window of 8 weeks, and they then promise me I will receive mine in 8 weeks...well that just does not add up. I feel that they unjustifiably claimed to fulfill my order when they knew they could not just so they could get my business. And they kept promising I would get my order up until they cut all communication.

Do I really expect them to say, “oops...we made a big booboo. Sorry! Just give us a little time and we promise to send you your money someday.” Nope. But I also can not trust them to follow through on their end of the deal anymore.

 

[MnFish1]

If said larger company did absolutely nothing to compensate for all those that have been burned by it and are currently out hundreds or a thousand dollars. I don't see that product going very far leaving such a bad taste in people's mouths. I know I certainly wouldn't touch it and I as you know am all for this product coming back.

right - I would guess that 99% of people who ordered/received a product would be eligible for a credit card refund - And frankly my guess is that for most of those people with or without a credit card refund - they would re-buy the product. and - if I were (and I have no information) a company doing this - I would a minimum give a refund to those that were not reimbursed - and maximum - a free subscription to those that ordered the product - and didn't get to use it 9and didn't get a refund). based on my research - most people should get a refund, the Cc will go after the assets - and whatever they claim will be a benefit to whomever decides the technology is worthwhile

 

[MnFish1]

I am not the poster you are directing this towards, but I have asked for a refund and it has not been issued. Brian Degen clearly states in the email that is hopes another company will pick up the technology so they can pay people back. So I do not see them paying anyone back out of their pockets in the near future (or distant future to be honest).

And I feel like what they have done is fraud.
One definition of Fraud:

a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.

When I purchase a unit 8 weeks after release, and they know that they have not shipped out those units with a promised delivery window of 8 weeks, and they then promise me I will receive mine in 8 weeks...well that just does not add up. I feel that they unjustifiably claimed to fulfill my order when they knew they could not just so they could get my business. And they kept promising I would get my order up until they cut all communication.

Do I really expect them to say, “oops...we made a big booboo. Sorry! Just give us a little time and we promise to send you your money someday.” Nope. But I also can not trust them to follow through on their end of the deal anymore.

You didnt post specifics - what your card is - what the card said. All I know is that I immediately got a credit to my account - pending a review. I would be talking to my credit card and asking what kind of protections you're paying your yearly fee for. So if you think its fraud - then there is no limit - and there should be no problem - so I'm confused - why 'your card' does not understand it. No offense - is it that you're not pressing the issue (you need to) - is it that they disagree (why specifically). the initial response to a card might always be 'no' - keep trying. Your realize that per the ftC and I've posted their rules - once you do a dispute - they have xxxx days to respond - have you done that? if so - I would await their final decision

 

[SandJ]

You didnt post specifics - what your card is - what the card said. All I know is that I immediately got a credit to my account - pending a review. I would be talking to my credit card and asking what kind of protections you're paying your yearly fee for. So if you think its fraud - then there is no limit - and there should be no problem - so I'm confused - why 'your card' does not understand it. No offense - is it that you're not pressing the issue (you need to) - is it that they disagree (why specifically). the initial response to a card might always be 'no' - keep trying. Your realize that per the ftC and I've posted their rules - once you do a dispute - they have xxxx days to respond - have you done that? if so - I would await their final decision

Nothing in my post was in reference to my credit card company, it is all about Mindstream so I am a little confused as to what you are talking about.

I have the temporary reversal from the credit card. We have never carried a balance on the cards so it was paid in full several months ago, otherwise we would not be paying on that amount while they investigate. I should get my money back from the credit card. It takes 30-60 days. Just updated them today about the new development from Mindstream. I do not consider that I have a refund until they rule in my favor though.

If Mindstream would have done the right thing and refunded I would not have to go through this process though.

 

[markster27]

Finally an email, very long email that does not mean much to me so glad I did the dispute and a very good chance it will hold off, weekly manual tests are fine with me, probably not even going to try the Trident

 

[MnFish1]

Nothing in my post was in reference to my credit card company, it is all about Mindstream so I am a little confused as to what you are talking about.

I have the temporary reversal from the credit card. We have never carried a balance on the cards so it was paid in full several months ago, otherwise we would not be paying on that amount while they investigate. I should get my money back from the credit card. It takes 30-60 days. Just updated them today about the new development from Mindstream. I do not consider that I have a refund until they rule in my favor though.

If Mindstream would have done the right thing and refunded I would not have to go through this process though.

Not exactly sure what you mean:

1. Is it 'bad' or 'too bad' that SAI went out of business? Yes
2. Is it 'for sure', 'likely', or 'very possible' that the reason was that that technology itself was 'a problem'. ? IDK but I dont think so
3. Is the technology as they advertised it 'an advance'. IMHO yes.
4. Is the pricing structure that they put forward popular: IMHO NO
5. If a new company came out with the same technology - having solved the debt problems of the prior company - and the prior reefers that paid for it - would this be an awesome product : IMHO YES Wholeheartedly.

As to how your credit card goes - they are going by the Rules of the FTC - which of course they should - what are you complaining about? Or have an issue about - They don't have 30-60 days - they have a certain time to act after you make a claim - based on your billing statement. There shoudl not be a 30-60 day window.... Unless you're not telling the whole story? Or your credit card is not? Or I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?

 

[MnFish1]

They clearly knew well before they stop sales that they we in a Cash Crunch and we’re using new pre-paid orders to keep them afloat. He even states that in his posting. I saw posting from people who ordered virtually on the day they opened sales and never got their units. My speculation is their investors were pressuring them to release them and now we see the results.

Didnt someone from SAI also post - that they had 'plenty of funding'? So your speculation is the same as everyone else's speculation - i.e. speculation

 

[SandJ]

Not exactly sure what you mean:

1. Is it 'bad' or 'too bad' that SAI went out of business? Yes
2. Is it 'for sure', 'likely', or 'very possible' that the reason was that that technology itself was 'a problem'. ? IDK but I dont think so
3. Is the technology as they advertised it 'an advance'. IMHO yes.
4. Is the pricing structure that they put forward popular: IMHO NO
5. If a new company came out with the same technology - having solved the debt problems of the prior company - and the prior reefers that paid for it - would this be an awesome product : IMHO YES Wholeheartedly.

As to how your credit card goes - they are going by the Rules of the FTC - which of course they should - what are you complaining about? Or have an issue about - They don't have 30-60 days - they have a certain time to act after you make a claim - based on your billing statement. There shoudl not be a 30-60 day window.... Unless you're not telling the whole story? Or your credit card is not? Or I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?

I have no idea what you are talking about with the 5 points above.

I am not complaining about anything (Except a company took my money and did not deliver a product or give me my money back) lol

I have no reason to lie. This is my first experience of having to file with a credit card. I called and told them what happened with Mindstream. Credit card took the info and said they would conduct an investigation and contact me if they need more info. Said it will take 30-60 days to complete the investigation. Said I do not have to pay on that amount while they investigate (Which did not matter to me because the charge was already paid in full by us and no balance was carried over to the next month).

 

[Mikeht11]

I would be careful - in stating things you're not 'sure of'. I.e. 'THEY CLEARLY KJNEW WAY BEFORE THEY STOP TAKING ORDERS THAT THE TITANIC WAS SINKING'. You might be correct - but - for youre own good - I'm not sure I would be posting stuff like that as if it was fact unless you know it...?

They clearly knew they were robbing people before they went under. Guess i should watch my back now.........

 

[Bleigh]

Credit cards deal with this stuff all the time. It’s one of the perks of using a credit card and one of the reasons for high interest rates - you have some protections. My husband once had someone steal his credit card number, go buy a used car and spent nearly the amount at autozone for *i presume* new parts for the used car. The credit card company asked minimal questions and put it under review, which I initially
Made us mad. We offered to go find the video at the places to prove it wasn’t us and were brushed off. We got all our money back. I realized afterwards it was just a technicality for them and the amount spent by the thief was negligible. That was far more money than the mindstream product was. You still feel violated with cc theft, but at least it’s reversible where as personal item theft often is not.

 

[robbyg]

Re my Refund:
The bank said it would take 30 days to process the refund.
When I checked my balance last week I noticed that refund had actually been done within a week.
It does not state that it was a bank refund, it almost looks like SAI refunded the money! I am not sure how that is possible but I am wondering if the Investors are doing refunds out of pocket for those that receive nothing. This is just specualtion but the way the refund was done did not fit the process the bank had explained and it was much faster.

 

[MnFish1]

Nothing in my post was in reference to my credit card company, it is all about Mindstream so I am a little confused as to what you are talking about.

I have the temporary reversal from the credit card. We have never carried a balance on the cards so it was paid in full several months ago, otherwise we would not be paying on that amount while they investigate. I should get my money back from the credit card. It takes 30-60 days. Just updated them today about the new development from Mindstream. I do not consider that I have a refund until they rule in my favor though.

If Mindstream would have done the right thing and refunded I would not have to go through this process though.

The post with the 5 points - was in reply to another post - sorry - Clearly - at this point its unlikely that SAI will be paying customers back - though reading the email - I guess anything is possible.

I dont think we have any argument - I assumed (my mistake - which is why I said 'maybe I'm misunderstanding' - that you were referring to your CC refund - because its been discussed for a while now that refunds are unlikely to come from Mindstream - Your CC - though - will go after SAI - or will make a claim on their chargeback insurance. BTW - companies can buy chargeback insurance as well - so that is a potential revenues source for SAI - as the dust settles.

EDIT - no where in the post did you mention 'Mindstream' or SAI - you talked about a refund. I just read all of the posts again - and if you start at yours - I think you'll get where it was confusing.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I contacted SAI through their website back in July after the rollout asking when they were going to service Canada as well.
I have to admit, I was a bit annoyed that they never got back to me. Now I am relieved ...

Dennis

 

[SandJ]

EDIT - no where in the post did you mention 'Mindstream' or SAI - you talked about a refund. I just read all of the posts again - and if you start at yours - I think you'll get where it was confusing.

Brian Degen clearly states in the email that is hopes another company will pick up the technology so they can pay people back. So I do not see them paying anyone back out of their pockets in the near future (or distant future to be honest).

I mentioned Brian Degen (who the Mindstream letter came from) is hoping another company will purchase their technology and I do not see them (Mindstream) paying anyone back. I just assumed it was understood I was talking about Mindstream and not the credit card. Sorry it was misunderstood.[/QUOTE]

 

[chicago]

Has anyone had their credit card company decline a refund.