Mixed Reef Corals Suddenly Declining

[Zakary2003]

Hey everyone. I've had a mixed nano reef set up for about 6 months. It is a waterbox 20 cube with pretty minimal stocking. Right now, it's just a pair of clownfish, a red mythrax crab, some hermit crabs, and a few snails. I've had some mixed success so far but things seem to be falling apart. I started with a pavona, a montipora digi, two montipora caps, a stylopora, an Avatar chalice coral, two rasta zoanthid colonies, a red unnamed zoanthid colony, two gsp frags, a candycane coral, and a bubble tipped anemone. Some of the corals seemed to be growing well until some of them randomly died back or disappeared. The stylopora and monti caps died completely and the pavona lost most of its tissue when I moved the tank last month. The other corals have been declining since. The chalice has browned out. The zoas had explosive growth up until today, but all 10 heads of the rasta just disappeared today without a trace. The montipora digi was growing quite well but now is missing tissue on an entire branch. That started on Friday. The gsp and clove polyps are growing explosively and seem fine, and up until today the anemone was getting quite big, but is now shrunken back and looks sort of sad. This also started on Friday. Why is everything declining? My nitrates are a bit high (20 ppm) and have been as high as 80 before from overfeeding while on vacation, but the corals have been doing find for a few weeks since then and I've been told by local hobbyists that this isn't likely the cause of death but could be why the chalice is browning out. Ammonia and Nitrites are 0, salinity is 35, ph has never been below 7.8 or above 8.1, temperature has been between 75-79 F the last few months since I had an AC failure, calcium has been around 400ppm and alkalinity has been 8-9dkh. I don't have magnesium or phosphates test kits. I do weekly water changes but did some more dramatic changes (10% per day for a week) recently because the nitrates got high while I was on vacation. I don't see any visible pests and I dipped all the corals before introduction to the tank with coral RX and hyposalinity and inspected them. I've followed all the information online and feel like I'm quite knowledgeable on paper, but I just haven't been having success.

 

[ColoredRock]

I don't have magnesium or phosphates test kits

I would start there.

 

[Zakary2003]

I would start there.

I don't have an algae problem and I just did 10% water changes every day for a week recently as mentioned in the original post. I think that would have lowered phosphate to a safe level. Also, how would high phosphates directly harm the corals? Doesn't it usually lead to algae issues first, then issues with the symbiotic zoax algae? My zoas didn't bleach, they just disappeared without a trace.

 

[ColoredRock]

I don't have an algae problem and I just did 10% water changes every day for a week recently as mentioned in the original post. I think that would have lowered phosphate to a safe level. Also, how would high phosphates directly harm the corals? Doesn't it usually lead to algae issues first, then issues with the symbiotic zoax algae? My zoas didn't bleach, they just disappeared without a trace.

Sorry I thought you had algae issues as well... misread it... my phosphates are high as well .18 and I have to dose nitrate.. and I dont have algae issues either. (1 year old tank)... are you sure your salinity at 35?.. have you tested via another means?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey everyone. I've had a mixed nano reef set up for about 6 months. It is a waterbox 20 cube with pretty minimal stocking. Right now, it's just a pair of clownfish, a red mythrax crab, some hermit crabs, and a few snails. I've had some mixed success so far but things seem to be falling apart. I started with a pavona, a montipora digi, two montipora caps, a stylopora, an Avatar chalice coral, two rasta zoanthid colonies, a red unnamed zoanthid colony, two gsp frags, a candycane coral, and a bubble tipped anemone. Some of the corals seemed to be growing well until some of them randomly died back or disappeared. The stylopora and monti caps died completely and the pavona lost most of its tissue when I moved the tank last month. The other corals have been declining since. The chalice has browned out. The zoas had explosive growth up until today, but all 10 heads of the rasta just disappeared today without a trace. The montipora digi was growing quite well but now is missing tissue on an entire branch. That started on Friday. The gsp and clove polyps are growing explosively and seem fine, and up until today the anemone was getting quite big, but is now shrunken back and looks sort of sad. This also started on Friday. Why is everything declining? My nitrates are a bit high (20 ppm) and have been as high as 80 before from overfeeding while on vacation, but the corals have been doing find for a few weeks since then and I've been told by local hobbyists that this isn't likely the cause of death but could be why the chalice is browning out. Ammonia and Nitrites are 0, salinity is 35, ph has never been below 7.8 or above 8.1, temperature has been between 75-79 F the last few months since I had an AC failure, calcium has been around 400ppm and alkalinity has been 8-9dkh. I don't have magnesium or phosphates test kits. I do weekly water changes but did some more dramatic changes (10% per day for a week) recently because the nitrates got high while I was on vacation. I don't see any visible pests and I dipped all the corals before introduction to the tank with coral RX and hyposalinity and inspected them. I've followed all the information online and feel like I'm quite knowledgeable on paper, but I just haven't been having success.

Having run mixed reefs a Long time , you want to create a balance with light-flow- salinity and nutrients. Often alone, if you have leather corals, they can release toxins known as terpenes and stony versus soft coral . . . there can be chemical war.
For that, I run chemipure blue to alleviate toxins and keep po4 in check. Depending on the method/kit used for testing, You can take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use Api kits and have them test for you to compare with your readings
Hyposalinity for coral Not recommended but rather after dip, agitate in tank water

 

[FUNGI]

No longer in vogue, but I would also try running a standalone GAC filter for a couple of days....

 

[Zakary2003]

Sorry I thought you had algae issues as well... misread it... my phosphates are high as well .18 and I have to dose nitrate.. and I dont have algae issues either. (1 year old tank)... are you sure your salinity at 35?.. have you tested via another means?

I have a specific gravity thing that measures it with a floating lever and a proper refractometer and they both agree. I know 35 is a little high but it's been stable there.

 

[Zakary2003]

Having run mixed reefs a Long time , you want to create a balance with light-flow- salinity and nutrients. Often alone, if you have leather corals, they can release toxins known as terpenes and stony versus soft coral . . . there can be chemical war.
For that, I run chemipure blue to alleviate toxins and keep po4 in check. Depending on the method/kit used for testing, You can take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use Api kits and have them test for you to compare with your readings
Hyposalinity for coral Not recommended but rather after dip, agitate in tank water

I don't have leather corals but I can try chemipure. Corals have a good amount of space between them because I only have a few and was planning to get more to fill it out before stuff started dying. I have no reactor or room for one though. Is a reactor required for chemipure blue? I had a friend with a PAR meter come over and help me adjust the light acordingly, and while I don't remember the exact values, I remember what could go where. SPS are at the bright spots, softies and LPS are all lower down where the par values were good for them. I don't have a skimmer because the tank is so small so nutrients could be the issue, but I do regular water changes and test nitrates regularly and do not have any issues with algae. The hyposalinity was likely not the issue, I just mentioned the dips to eliminate pests as the cause. The LFS had a bad case of bristle worms and recommended the hyposalinity to get them off. The dips were 4 months ago.

 

[Zakary2003]

No longer in vogue, but I would also try running a standalone GAC filter for a couple of days....

I have a decent sized bag of activated carbon in chamber one of the back. Does that do the same thing?

 

[Zakary2003]

Having run mixed reefs a Long time , you want to create a balance with light-flow- salinity and nutrients. Often alone, if you have leather corals, they can release toxins known as terpenes and stony versus soft coral . . . there can be chemical war.
For that, I run chemipure blue to alleviate toxins and keep po4 in check. Depending on the method/kit used for testing, You can take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use Api kits and have them test for you to compare with your readings
Hyposalinity for coral Not recommended but rather after dip, agitate in tank water

As for flow, I don't think my flow is perfect but I have the zoas and chalice coral in a low flow area and everything else is in moderately high flow. The highest flow in the tank is where my montipora digi is located, and that is where the return pump is indirectly pointing.

 

[vetteguy53081]

As for flow, I don't think my flow is perfect but I have the zoas and chalice coral in a low flow area and everything else is in moderately high flow. The highest flow in the tank is where my montipora digi is located, and that is where the return pump is indirectly pointing.

Carbon should work. As for flow, you want to keep sediment off of them. Take a turkey baster and give the surfaces gentle bursts. If you see dusty matter coming off, flow may be insufficient

 

[Zakary2003]

Carbon should work. As for flow, you want to keep sediment off of them. Take a turkey baster and give the surfaces gentle bursts. If you see dusty matter coming off, flow may be insufficient

The only coral that has a problem with detritus is the chalice coral, and that's because it has grown into a bowl shape. I dust him off twice a day. The others never have detritus buildup on them.

 

[Zakary2003]

None of the responses have explained how a 10 zoa polyps divided between two different places in the tank could disapear so quickly. Yesterday there were open happy polyps and today they are all gone leaving just the frag plugs behind. Can anyone please explain what might have happened there?

 

[Zakary2003]

Now my black widow bubble tip anemone is closed up and I'm super worried because it's the centerpiece of my tank. Can someone please tell me how I can at least figure out what is wrong before I lose everything? I did a 10% water change last night.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Now my black widow bubble tip anemone is closed up and I'm super worried because it's the centerpiece of my tank. Can someone please tell me how I can at least figure out what is wrong before I lose everything? I did a 10% water change last night.

The problem is that there's a long list of possibilities, from things you can test for to things you cannot.

How are you purifying the water you use for those increased water changes?

An ICP test might be useful if a problem such as copper is getting in.

I do not know how useful the Aquabiomics bacteria tests really are, but if it is a pathogen of some sort, that might be useful.

GAC is certainly useful to use and use more of.

 

[Zakary2003]

The problem is that there's a long list of possibilities, from things you can test for to things you cannot.

How are you purifying the water you use for those increased water changes?

An ICP test might be useful if a problem such as copper is getting in.

I do not know how useful the Aquabiomics bacteria tests really are, but if it is a pathogen of some sort, that might be useful.

GAC is certainly useful to use and use more of.

I buy RODI water from my lfs and mix the salt myself (their saltwater doesn't have great calcium levels). I have never used ICP testing before, but what would I do if something came back as abnormal? I'm already doing weekly water changes and have been doing them even more often since the tank is declining. I might try it anyways, just because the $30 or so is nothing compared to the amount of livestock I've already lost and am continuing to lose. I'll try replacing my carbon today. If it wasn't for everything else declining, I wouldn't be worried about the nem because the male clownfish just started trying to get the nem to host it for the first time a few days ago and I know that can cause them to close, but he's nowhere near it today and the timing seems too coincidental.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I buy RODI water from my lfs and mix the salt myself (their saltwater doesn't have great calcium levels). I have never used ICP testing before, but what would I do if something came back as abnormal? I'm already doing weekly water changes and have been doing them even more often since the tank is declining. I might try it anyways, just because the $30 or so is nothing compared to the amount of livestock I've already lost and am continuing to lose. I'll try replacing my carbon today. If it wasn't for everything else declining, I wouldn't be worried about the nem because the male clownfish just started trying to get the nem to host it for the first time a few days ago and I know that can cause them to close, but he's nowhere near it today and the timing seems too coincidental.

Well, depends on what you saw, but, for example, if the LFS is cheating and using tap water with 0.5 ppm copper in it, I'd use a metal binder to reduce the copper.

I's highly unlikely (IMO) that the problems are due to some trace element too low, but one far too high is a possibility.

 

[Lavey29]

As mentioned above there could be any number of issues causing your problem so testing all parameters with ICP test is a good place to start along with water changes like you have been doing. Typically SPS corals are nearly impossible to sustain in new tanks unless you are a very experienced reefer. Nano tanks also are difficult because if something gets off it affects the system very quickly versus larger tanks that can absorb a problem longer and give you more time for a solution. Verify your par also.

 

[Cali Reef Life]

So I had a semi tank crash well I was away on vacation. I did all steps to fix it when I got back but the fact it already happened and I watched 30% of my corals die over the next 2 months.

Sometimes the mistake already happen and your just seeing it. maybe some chemical got in there maybe you measured the salt wrong but now its right now. I'd double check everything and then make sure you have accurate temperature device and just brace the storm.
( "Moved tank over fed well on vacation caused spike")

My issue was return pump turned off for 2 days due to storm and tank got cold then dumped with all my dose back into tank which caused a swing then heated back up without me there to slowly do it. By time I got home my levels were slightly elevated. Took me awhile to figure out what had happened but the damage was done.

Keep it stable run carbon. You might of already fixed it and now are just seeing the damage from what already happened. This hobby is full of ups and downs part of the challenge. don't try to many things to solve it or could get worse.

 

[Zakary2003]

Typically SPS corals are nearly impossible to sustain in new tanks unless you are a very experienced reefer.

I knew that going into this, but I'm having just as many issues with my chalice, my zoas, and my bta.

Verify your par also.

I did the whole par thing when I first set up the tank and I haven't changed the settings since then. I don't own a par meter but I borrowed one from a friend before I moved and I know the PAR isn't quite what acros would want but it is sufficient for what I have and plan to keep. I believe it was just over 200 at the top center where I placed the montipora. The spot the stylopora used to be in the front right corner of the scape was around 180 par. The zoas were in an area with like 90-100 par but they never showed signs of wanting more light.