Mixing Station / Water Change Layout

[Krzykat]

I'm tired of moving hoses and unplugging hose, using wetvac to initiate suction, etc. Not to mention the water that no matter how careful I am, gets a bit here or there (thank God I've got tile floors).

I've sketched out what I think will work, and would love to get some review and comments. My tank is a 210, and my idea is to have just a single hose that can be dropped in tank when ready to do a change.

I've designed an intake manifold, and outtake manifold with an inline pump in between.

I have 3 @ 50 gallon containers. One is currently used for RO storage, another for Saltwater mixed, and the 3rd isn't used (a green garbage can that I was afraid could leech something, so I switched the mixing to a Brute.

The "fish room" is in a closet/stairwell 10 ft from tank.

I THINK with this layout, I can quickly empty from Reef tank to Waste Container (3rd 50 gallon container).
Then switch valves and just as quickly fill with fresh mix.

The waste container can then be emptied at a slower rate using the RO drain line.

The RO system should then be able to fill the Mixing station water, as well as top off the RO storage as well (I have an Apex solenoid that I'll only turn on if RO was extemely low, but reality is it will really only need to be turned on when doing a water change weekly or every other week).

I've also included valves for allowing the existing RO to flush to the Mixing in case I want to do an extra large water change.

 

[Peace River]

Interesting setup! I understand the sentiment and added a water mixing station system a few years ago for similar reasons. A few thoughts to consider - do you have a way to get saltwater and RO out of the respective tanks to a bucket or something other than the tank? Do you have a way to operate the system, do water changes, etc if you lose power? Do you have measures in place to deal with a reverse siphon from your tank back into your containers when the water level in the containers drop?

 

[Krzykat]

Interesting setup! I understand the sentiment and added a water mixing station system a few years ago for similar reasons. A few thoughts to consider - do you have a way to get saltwater and RO out of the respective tanks to a bucket or something other than the tank? Do you have a way to operate the system, do water changes, etc if you lose power? Do you have measures in place to deal with a reverse siphon from your tank back into your containers when the water level in the containers drop?

I'm modifying design before implementing ... So I've now added another port to both intake and outake manifold. I have a 60gallon cube upstairs for my daughter and sooner or later, I plan to have a tank in either my office or bedroom upstairs as well. Not sure details, but thinking something like either 3/4" or 1/2" pex going upstairs following the stairwell (IE - fishroom) - and then with something like a simple plugin adapter from a wall so that a 30 or 40 ft. hose could be snapped in and out to facilitate water changes upstairs.

You questions:
1) getting water out of tanks. OK - took me a second to understand what you mean there. So I guess there are a couple considerations here. One is do I need to clean and flush my container, while another would be I just need a short amount for ?? a 5 bucket container for a friend needing some fresh water for example. I've seen people insert a tap on the bottom of the containers, but I'd almost be inclined to add a tap / threaded end I can add a hose to on the out portion of the manifold. Good thought and that's why I posted this to see what I'm forgetting.

2) Water changes if power is lost? Not really - if I have no power, I think I have larger problems. I do live in S. Florida, so a hurricane has the potential to knock out power for a week (HIGHLY unlikely where I live, but its Florida). In that event, I'd be much more interested in generator / UPS powering powerheads to oxygenate the water though.

3) Reverse siphon Yes - I've added to the design 3/4" check valves - and I plan to place one on either end of the pump to only allow water to flow one direction. So funny When I started doing my own water changes with a pump, I would turn on pump - think I had things right, and then turn pump off, then a few minutes display would get air bubbles running low. I turn pump back on and fill, and the same thing would happen. Took me a couple times before I had the hand to forehead moment of realizing when I turned it off, since hose was below water line it was siphoning right back out.

4) Water level in containers ... The 2 containers - RO and mix will both have floats on them for now (later I can add Neptune Optical Sensors). I will have a Neptune solenoid on front side of RO system (I have found that running RO constantly is bad for system), and it will get triggered when either A) - water change is accomplished or B) Water is detected as low in RO container. The RO fill will fill both Mix and RO when this occurs. I'll have to do an initial test to see how long that takes, but let's assume 8 hours .. then I'll set the Solenoid to turn off after say 10 hours. That is until I add more Apex parts to see everything.

I have a few parts that I have questions on though.

1) Right now I just use cheap powerheads in mix container, but I've seen others that have set an intake 3/4" on top and outake on bottom. Then to mix, they simply use the external pump to pull from bottom and push to top. Is that better / worst than the simple power head mixer in there.

2) For ease of use, I'm thinking to mount this manifold on the wall next to the RO system. This would put pipes probably up to 10 linear feet away from pump. AND .. the pump / manifold system would be higher than the containers. Is that a problem?

3) What pump to use. Right now for my water changes I use a Aqqa 1200 GPH (11.5 head) pump and it works fine (LOVE how quiet this pump is, literally can't hear it run. I haven't gotten to the part of setting up manifold yet, but I think it won't be sufficient. I see they make a model that is 3200 GPH (17.4 head) pump that is supposed to work inline as well at a cost of $130. ... But I found on local marketplace someone selling a Blueline HD 100 that has 1900 GPH with up to 45' head for $300. I'm thinking that is the way to go as it should be a stronger pump that can pull from 10 ft. away and push upstairs without an issue.

4) Can the pump sit up that high (above the containers) - or should I put the pump on the ground, and then still have manifold on wall up high? I'm worried about priming of the pump, etc.

Thanks for the assistance.

 

[Peace River]

Based on my own experience, I try to flush and reset my containers annually. This will depend on multiple factors including what type of salt you use, if you use any mechanical filtration (I recirculate the saltwater through a filter sock), and possibly other factors. Water changes are just one of the ways to help with oxygenation during power outages (not required, but something to consider). I use a combination of manual floats and optical sensors for redundancy (the manual float is higher to work as a back up to prevent overflows out the top of the container). In number 4 you mentioned running RO to the mix container - does this mean that you won't maintain full saltwater in the mix container? If so, do you have something in place to prevent doing a water change with less-than-full strength saltwater? It is possible to have a separate brine tank with high salinity water and then does that into a mixing station until the correct salinity is reached, but that requires automation and a way to measure salinity that is both accurate and can be connected to the automation (probably a more advanced conversation). Using power heads for circulation is a viable solution, but I have found that cheap power heads can break down and can start sending low level current into the water. Personally, I use the recirculation approach with the pump that is at the heart of my mixing station. I don't think that having the manifold above the water mixing water level is a problem (it will require more head pressure from the pump), but IMHO I would place the pump near the bottom of the tanks (most aquarium pumps are "push" pumps and not "pull" pumps). Regarding pump choice, I would recommend a quality DC pump. Personally, I use a Reef Octopus Varios-6 with my two 65-gallon Norwesco tanks that make up water mixing station. The pump is used for water changes, recirculation (pump on high setting), and regular recirculation (pump on low setting). I have found that running the pump on high for a long period of time during recirculation can raise the water temperature in the water mixing tank (I have a thermometer sensor connected to my automation to let me know). The pump could be several feet away from the water tanks if it is place at or below the tank level, but placing the pump above the water level would typically require a secondary priming pump (not recommended for most configurations).

 

[ti_lavender]

3) What pump to use. Right now for my water changes I use a Aqqa 1200 GPH (11.5 head) pump and it works fine (LOVE how quiet this pump is, literally can't hear it run. I haven't gotten to the part of setting up manifold yet, but I think it won't be sufficient. I see they make a model that is 3200 GPH (17.4 head) pump that is supposed to work inline as well at a cost of $130. ... But I found on local marketplace someone selling a Blueline HD 100 that has 1900 GPH with up to 45' head for $300. I'm thinking that is the way to go as it should be a stronger pump that can pull from 10 ft. away and push upstairs without an issue.

4) Can the pump sit up that high (above the containers) - or should I put the pump on the ground, and then still have manifold on wall up high? I'm worried about priming of the pump, etc.

Thanks for the assistance.

I’m in the process of setting up my station (RO and SW) and have to go between floors of my house. I’ve opted to use diaphragm style pumps to allow for self priming, ability for the pump to be located higher than the outlet of the container, and to deal with the higher head requirements. I got a small 12V pump that is hooked up to a Tunze ATO and then a 120V pump tied in to apex that runs about 5 GPM for water changes.

 

[Krzykat]

I’m in the process of setting up my station (RO and SW) and have to go between floors of my house. I’ve opted to use diaphragm style pumps to allow for self priming, ability for the pump to be located higher than the outlet of the container, and to deal with the higher head requirements. I got a small 12V pump that is hooked up to a Tunze ATO and then a 120V pump tied in to apex that runs about 5 GPM for water changes.

What type of diaphragm pump do you have that is a small 12v that can do 5 gallons per minute?

 

[Krzykat]

Based on my own experience, I try to flush and reset my containers annually. This will depend on multiple factors including what type of salt you use, if you use any mechanical filtration (I recirculate the saltwater through a filter sock), and possibly other factors. Water changes are just one of the ways to help with oxygenation during power outages (not required, but something to consider). I use a combination of manual floats and optical sensors for redundancy (the manual float is higher to work as a back up to prevent overflows out the top of the container). In number 4 you mentioned running RO to the mix container - does this mean that you won't maintain full saltwater in the mix container? If so, do you have something in place to prevent doing a water change with less-than-full strength saltwater? It is possible to have a separate brine tank with high salinity water and then does that into a mixing station until the correct salinity is reached, but that requires automation and a way to measure salinity that is both accurate and can be connected to the automation (probably a more advanced conversation). Using power heads for circulation is a viable solution, but I have found that cheap power heads can break down and can start sending low level current into the water. Personally, I use the recirculation approach with the pump that is at the heart of my mixing station. I don't think that having the manifold above the water mixing water level is a problem (it will require more head pressure from the pump), but IMHO I would place the pump near the bottom of the tanks (most aquarium pumps are "push" pumps and not "pull" pumps). Regarding pump choice, I would recommend a quality DC pump. Personally, I use a Reef Octopus Varios-6 with my two 65-gallon Norwesco tanks that make up water mixing station. The pump is used for water changes, recirculation (pump on high setting), and regular recirculation (pump on low setting). I have found that running the pump on high for a long period of time during recirculation can raise the water temperature in the water mixing tank (I have a thermometer sensor connected to my automation to let me know). The pump could be several feet away from the water tanks if it is place at or below the tank level, but placing the pump above the water level would typically require a secondary priming pump (not recommended for most configurations).

Understand the combo floats, and will eventually do that. The high salinity is an interesting concept, and I never thought of that. I have the Apex-EL, so no salinity checks. I just check my tank to make sure its on point, and if its low, maybe do a higher salinity mix, and if high, a lower salinity mix. I check both tank and mix for each water change. I really like my apex, but I've heard of issues and can only imagine automating salinity and if it was a bad sensor - crashing the tank. Water changes aren't 100% automated, I have to manually change the valves and add the correct amount of salt, so that's just part of the process. Even if one were to automate the valves, I don't see how you would get around mixing the salt without some rather expensive equipment.

OK- based on what you've said and some further research, I think I'll house the manifold on the wall - but keep the pump more on the bottom to ease stress on the pump and priming issues. I think I'll have the pump plugged into Energy Bar, so that if I need to turn it off for whatever reason, I can simply issue command to turn it off without being in room. This is getting more solid in my mind now.

For flushing the tanks annually, do you just use your pump and then have a port on the outbound manifold that can be plugged into a garden hose so that you can just flush out to a drain? I don't think you'd need the same on inbound though.

I see your pump has a 16 ft. head, but that's also with a 1.25" inlet. I imagine if you change the ports to .75" you'd get more pressure. I'm sure in the Front room, that would work fine, but I wonder if it would be sufficient for 2nd floor - let's say 16 ft up. (Like what you say about DC pump).

 

[dwest]

Based on my own experience, I try to flush and reset my containers annually. This will depend on multiple factors including what type of salt you use, if you use any mechanical filtration (I recirculate the saltwater through a filter sock), and possibly other factors. Water changes are just one of the ways to help with oxygenation during power outages (not required, but something to consider). I use a combination of manual floats and optical sensors for redundancy (the manual float is higher to work as a back up to prevent overflows out the top of the container). In number 4 you mentioned running RO to the mix container - does this mean that you won't maintain full saltwater in the mix container? If so, do you have something in place to prevent doing a water change with less-than-full strength saltwater? It is possible to have a separate brine tank with high salinity water and then does that into a mixing station until the correct salinity is reached, but that requires automation and a way to measure salinity that is both accurate and can be connected to the automation (probably a more advanced conversation). Using power heads for circulation is a viable solution, but I have found that cheap power heads can break down and can start sending low level current into the water. Personally, I use the recirculation approach with the pump that is at the heart of my mixing station. I don't think that having the manifold above the water mixing water level is a problem (it will require more head pressure from the pump), but IMHO I would place the pump near the bottom of the tanks (most aquarium pumps are "push" pumps and not "pull" pumps). Regarding pump choice, I would recommend a quality DC pump. Personally, I use a Reef Octopus Varios-6 with my two 65-gallon Norwesco tanks that make up water mixing station. The pump is used for water changes, recirculation (pump on high setting), and regular recirculation (pump on low setting). I have found that running the pump on high for a long period of time during recirculation can raise the water temperature in the water mixing tank (I have a thermometer sensor connected to my automation to let me know). The pump could be several feet away from the water tanks if it is place at or below the tank level, but placing the pump above the water level would typically require a secondary priming pump (not recommended for most configurations).

How did you set up your system to flow through a filter sock?

 

[ti_lavender]

What type of diaphragm pump do you have that is a small 12v that can do 5 gallons per minute?

2 separate pumps.

The 12 V is small and uses 1/4” RO tubing. It’s powered through the Tunze ATO.
CrocSee DC 12V Self Priming...

then the pump for the SW:
Anbull Self Priming Water Pump...

 

[Peace River]

How did you set up your system to flow through a filter sock?

I got the idea from Jake. He told me about it at one of the shows and then he later included it in the following video (see 6:25):



Although my DIY attachment point is slightly different it is in line with what you will see in the video.

 

[Peace River]

Understand the combo floats, and will eventually do that. The high salinity is an interesting concept, and I never thought of that. I have the Apex-EL, so no salinity checks. I just check my tank to make sure its on point, and if its low, maybe do a higher salinity mix, and if high, a lower salinity mix. I check both tank and mix for each water change. I really like my apex, but I've heard of issues and can only imagine automating salinity and if it was a bad sensor - crashing the tank. Water changes aren't 100% automated, I have to manually change the valves and add the correct amount of salt, so that's just part of the process. Even if one were to automate the valves, I don't see how you would get around mixing the salt without some rather expensive equipment.

OK- based on what you've said and some further research, I think I'll house the manifold on the wall - but keep the pump more on the bottom to ease stress on the pump and priming issues. I think I'll have the pump plugged into Energy Bar, so that if I need to turn it off for whatever reason, I can simply issue command to turn it off without being in room. This is getting more solid in my mind now.

For flushing the tanks annually, do you just use your pump and then have a port on the outbound manifold that can be plugged into a garden hose so that you can just flush out to a drain? I don't think you'd need the same on inbound though.

I see your pump has a 16 ft. head, but that's also with a 1.25" inlet. I imagine if you change the ports to .75" you'd get more pressure. I'm sure in the Front room, that would work fine, but I wonder if it would be sufficient for 2nd floor - let's say 16 ft up. (Like what you say about DC pump).

I am not pleased with any of the electronic salinity meters right now. The Hanna marine monitor seems to be one of the better options but it currently cannot be connected to a controller. I think that it is likely possible for someone to make a hack that connects the Hanna salinity probe from their marine monitor directly to an Apex or Hydros that would IMO provide a better option than what either companies current offer with their controllers.

Personally when cleaning the containers I disconnect them where I can take them outside for a thorough clean and dry (even use a pressure washer if necessary depending on scale build up). Of course, this isn't required, but rather what I try to do.

Varios does also have an 8 and a 10 so if the 6 isn't big enough there are other options. Additionally, Ecotech Vectra is a similar pump to consider.

 

[Nicholasbar]

I’m in the process of setting up my station (RO and SW) and have to go between floors of my house. I’ve opted to use diaphragm style pumps to allow for self priming, ability for the pump to be located higher than the outlet of the container, and to deal with the higher head requirements. I got a small 12V pump that is hooked up to a Tunze ATO and then a 120V pump tied in to apex that runs about 5 GPM for water changes.

What type of diaphragm pump do you have? I have never heard of one pumping 5GPM.

 

[ti_lavender]

What type of diaphragm pump do you have? I have never heard of one pumping 5GPM.

2 separate pumps.

The 12 V is small and uses 1/4” RO tubing. It’s powered through the Tunze ATO.
CrocSee DC 12V Self Priming...

then the pump for the SW:
Anbull Self Priming Water Pump...

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Just this past weekend I finished my mixing station in a utility room in my garage. I love it, I can hold 100 gallons of RODI and currently can mix about 50 gallons (I can expanded it in 2 hours to 100 gallons of salt mix). Using camlocks I can plug in either a rodi hose or a salt hose (soon to be on retractable reels) and are pressurized that I can dial in at the business end. I can also drag a siphon with me that will also dump the waste water in the mixing room also. No more buckets, no more buckets no more buckets. But, lol, I went to use my first mix (mash, as my neighbors like to call it) and it was 93 degrees lol. I am going to DIY a water cooler with some 3/8th's plastic tubing and aAttach files minifridge.

 

[BR260354]

2 separate pumps.

The 12 V is small and uses 1/4” RO tubing. It’s powered through the Tunze ATO.
CrocSee DC 12V Self Priming...

then the pump for the SW:
Anbull Self Priming Water Pump...

Looking at diaphragm pump also, but I have questions. Is the Anbull saltwater safe? Can't seem to locate that. When pumping water for water change (filling the tank), do you have a valve on the hose and it just turns on the pump? After filling the tank, do you turn off the pump and the water in the hose flows back to your water storage?

Thanks!

 

[ti_lavender]

Looking at diaphragm pump also, but I have questions. Is the Anbull saltwater safe? Can't seem to locate that. When pumping water for water change (filling the tank), do you have a valve on the hose and it just turns on the pump? After filling the tank, do you turn off the pump and the water in the hose flows back to your water storage?

Thanks!

So far I've been using it for 2 months now. I couldn't find a marine rating, but since he's a diaphragm it's using flexible tubing as the chamber. Saltwater should be fine with that material.

I have the pump controlled by a switch connected to my Apex. I keep it on most of the time as it shuts off when the lines are fully pressurized. I have a few ball valves on the supply side plumbing. I have a re-circulation loop, a fill spout for my QT, in addition to the line to the display tank. So far no problems. If I turn off the pump I have not noticed water back flowing. So far I've been loving this setup.

 

[BR260354]

I just posted this - https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/water-mixing-station-via-brute-lids.999246/ on what I'm trying to achieve.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[BR260354]

I ordered the Anbull. Should work in my configuration based on my link in the post above.