Moonshiners method feedback

[rtparty]

This comment rubbed me the wrong way tbh. I don’t think it sounds very respectful. ;)

Agreed. I don’t think it was supposed to be respectful though. Randy has plenty of comments in here that are educational. Comments backed by actual science and evidence. Not anecdotal evidence that is easily countered.

 

[rtparty]

So what is the plan if it becomes apparent that Oceamo is a joke, like nearly every other reefing company? I am not saying that they are, only that if they are not, they are in a super-small minority. They are mostly a black box. The few that have checked their results against other see big discrepancies. Why should anybody put more faith in them than they have other companies who have let hobbyists down? As Dr. Joshi points out, there is no evidence that anything that they produce is accurate, nor the other companies.

Is reliance a too much of a leap of faith? Everybody please consider that this could just be a fad to trust ICP in totality.

I’ve got around 50 ICP tests with ATI at this point. I’ve talked to multiple people who actually run and process ICP testing because of my salt testing experiment.

Even though it puts a damper on my experiment, ICP testing is far from reliable or accurate. Especially when you’re paying less than a $100 for a test lol

 

[Coinzmans Reef]

Basting the rocks is basically a small destabilizing event. All these guys will auto testers like Alkatronic will tell you. It won’t stop it for long, but you definitely notice it. I test a lot so I’ve seen it several times.

Thanks. I looked at my log book and Apex log, there is no notable correlation between ALK drop off and water change.

"Some of the best tanks I’ve seen is because the reefer is lazy"

That was my tank in the 90's never did much of anything and never had my arms in the tank. Water changes were 10% four times a year if that? No skimmer, never even thought of blowing off rocks. The only thing I did every week was swap the micron filter pad I had in the drip tray. I did add some Kent Iodine, Molybdenum and kalk water once a month. I had far less issues and expenses back than, but I have way better growth, coloration and variety now.

Salt was 1.021
PH was 7.8 - 8.0
nitrates were always 20ppm
Temp was around 78-80 due to two 250w MH

Come to think about it, the only time I had my hands in the tank was to take these pictures with those cheap disposable underwater cameras. LOL 1990 something?




Sorry I am way off topic. This thread however makes me want to stop the shine and fussing to see what becomes of my tank. September I go for a knee replacement, the tank will need to run on auto pilot for a Few months. I will post back in December with my findings.

 

[Miami Reef]

Agreed. I don’t think it was supposed to be respectful though. Randy has plenty of comments in here that are educational. Comments backed by actual science and evidence. Not anecdotal evidence that is easily countered.

I agree. I’m a really big fan of Randy, and I’ll always back him up.

For the people who believe that dosing non biologically required elements is unnecessary, you will enjoy this thread from 2020 with Randy going head to head with the CEO of moonshiners about Rubidium and Barium

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dosing-rubidium.717846/

 

[Miami Reef]

IMO: Appendix = rubidium and barium. ;)

 

[Rmckoy]

Very curious about moonshiners …
How does it work ?

What’s tested and dosed

 

[Rmckoy]

I’ve lost all corals except for the ones I never wanted.
But seriously thinking pf something other than dosing esv 2 part

 

[Miami Reef]

I’ve lost all corals except for the ones I never wanted.
But seriously thinking pf something other than dosing esv 2 part

I don’t think ESV 2 part is the culprit. You can try moonshiners if you want, but it’s not all sunshines and rainbows like some people make it seem. It has its drawbacks.

 

[Mattiejay6]

So what is the plan if it becomes apparent that Oceamo is a joke, like nearly every other reefing company? I am not saying that they are, only that if they are not, they are in a super-small minority. They are mostly a black box. The few that have checked their results against other see big discrepancies. Why should anybody put more faith in them than they have other companies who have let hobbyists down? As Dr. Joshi points out, there is no evidence that anything that they produce is accurate, nor the other companies.

Is reliance a too much of a leap of faith? Everybody please consider that this could just be a fad to trust ICP in totality.

Well looking at the Oceamo results and Fauna Marin.. they were relatively close.. Im Not a chemist.. scientist or anything else.. but when I compared what i saw, it made me feel comfortable.

if these two companies being in seperate countries are somewhat similar In results, than why is it hard to believe they could be pretty decent.. the way you present yourself just seems more like a chip on your shoulder.

 

[jda]

In the absence of actual experience or much scientific work, I am happy to lean towards somebody with a pair of Ivy degrees whose opinions, thoughts and experience has created therapies that have made human lives better.

 

[Mattiejay6]

I don’t think ESV 2 part is the culprit. You can try moonshiners if you want, but it’s not all sunshines and rainbows like some people make it seem. It has its drawbacks.

the ones that are opposing moonshine in this thread aren’t doing so because of non success while using it.. that seems to be the big take away… all of the opposers are against ICP’s, or Dosing what they believe isn’t beneficial, because there hasn’t been controlled tests saying they are beneficial..

 

[Mattiejay6]

In the absence of actual experience or much scientific work, I am happy to lean towards somebody with a pair of Ivy degrees whose opinions, thoughts and experience has created therapies that have made human lives better.

“opinions” “thoughts” ….key words

 

[Miami Reef]

the ones that are opposing moonshine in this thread aren’t doing so because of non success while using it.. that seems to be the big take away… all of the opposers are against ICP’s, or Dosing what they believe isn’t beneficial, because there hasn’t been controlled tests saying they are beneficial..

Actually, the scientific community has established that there is currently no known biological role of barium or rubidium in corals.

Why they want to sell these supplements is most likely just for $$$.

I can sell some burnt ashes from my toast and tell you to dose it because you don’t have full proof that corals can’t use it. I like to have more freedom and control over what I put into my tank.

ICP isn’t a perfect method. The forms of trace elements is very important.

 

[Rmckoy]

I don’t think ESV 2 part is the culprit. You can try moonshiners if you want, but it’s not all sunshines and rainbows like some people make it seem. It has its drawbacks.

Just like anything in life .
There are pros and cons .

my top highest concern is my system being 230 gal

What would the cost associated with dosing for that volume ?

Is one salt mix better compared to others ?

 

[Rmckoy]

the ones that are opposing moonshine in this thread aren’t doing so because of non success while using it.. that seems to be the big take away… all of the opposers are against ICP’s, or Dosing what they believe isn’t beneficial, because there hasn’t been controlled tests saying they are beneficial..

Sounds similar to another flat earth theory in the works

 

[Miami Reef]

Just like anything in life .
There are pros and cons .

my top highest concern is my system being 230 gal

What would the cost associated with dosing for that volume ?

Is one salt mix better compared to others ?

At the end of the day, corals need proper parameters, proper nutrition, proper light (if photosynthetic, proper flow, and lack of predators to thrive. Once you understand this, you can see how simple/complicated you can make it. The basics will be the same.

 

[Mattiejay6]

Actually, the scientific community has established that there is currently no known biological role of barium or rubidium in corals.

Why they want to sell these supplements is most likely just for $$$.

I can sell some burnt ashes from my toast and tell you to dose it because you don’t have full proof that corals can’t use it.

Well.. I certainly understand their is currently no known biological role. That has been stated. However this hobby Has evolved fairly rapidly from 10 years ago when there was a lot more things that weren’t known.. at least not that I heard of.. it may come one day someone will discover the roles..

however… it does not bother me to add these, because there is no negative effect as of right now other then my time and money.. which really isn’t much of either.. so I am ok with it.

 

[jda]

“opinions” “thoughts” ….key words

Those are the key words that you took? Not dual Ivy League degrees, experience and creating actual, provable things that helped humans? ...or that in the lack of else, that these are about as good as it gets?

I have an incredible disdain for nearly all reefing companies. I don't hide this. Their trust-me, black box solutions have left a wake of disappointed reefers for decades... and some all-out fraud. People can do whatever they want, but others want to know. If pointing out that this script has been played before makes me have a chip, then so be it. My daughter once told me that there was likely no recording artist who ever dressed as feminine and had hot women around him like Harry Styles - she probably thought that I had a chip on my shoulder too when I pointed out that Bowie was kinda a big thing.

 

[Mattiejay6]

At the end of the day, corals need proper parameters, proper nutrition, proper light (if photosynthetic, proper flow, and lack of predators to thrive. Once you understand this, you can see how simple/complicated you can make it. The basics will be the same.

Well.. thats the exact point.. we are shooting for proper parameters

 

[Miami Reef]

Well.. thats the exact point.. we are shooting for proper parameters

Are you implying moonshiners is the only way to have proper parameters? There are many ways to skin a cat.