Moving Water From One Place To Another

[Forsaken77]

I need DETAILED help in this situation because I'm tired of lugging buckets of water from the basement.

I have 1/4" ro tubing ran from the basement, under the rug past a doorway, and drilled through the bottom of the wall into the next room. That's the ONLY tubing I'm working with, as I can't run anything else and have it be hidden.

I need to pump water from my 44 Brute rodi reservoir through this 1/4" line and into another Brute or ato. This pump would not be connected to my rodi system.

How can I go about this? What safety measures can I put in place? Should I pump water up, or pull water through? I want the water to transfer fairly quickly, not dripping.

Can someone suggest a type of pump that can connect to push connect tubing or any products I would need to do this? I may also use this same line to pump fresh saltwater up to a second Brute for water changes.

Any help on exactly how to accomplish this (remote power switches, ect) would be greatly appreciated

 

[SuncrestReef]

Do you have any type of aquarium controller? I have an Apex that controls pumps at my mixing station and uses optical switches and float switches, and a float valve as a failsafe. You could place a PMUP or other small pump in the Brute RODI container and connect it to the 1/4" tubing. An optical or float switch near the bottom of the RODI container could sense when the water level is low and turn off the pump to prevent running it dry. In the ATO container, another optical or float switch could also be monitored to turn off the pump when the container is full. As a failsafe, a float valve at the top of the ATO container could physically cut off the water supply if it's too full and the optical/float switches fail.

 

[mcarroll]

You can get up to 15GPH with this APT Instruments continuous duty pump:


Fixed-Flow Cased Peristaltic Pumps

$155.00

You don't need anything but a timer. Put the drain pump and fill pump on the same timer if it makes sense.

They have several variable flow versions of this model that'll run you +$60 and up compared to this one.

 

[mcarroll]

(Actually that's 1000 watts if you select the largest flow rate, so one timer per pump would probably be needed.)

 

[SuncrestReef]

You can get up to 15GPH with this APT Instruments continuous duty pump:


Fixed-Flow Cased Peristaltic Pumps

$155.00

You don't need anything but a timer. Put the drain pump and fill pump on the same timer if it makes sense.

They have several variable flow versions of this model that'll run you +$60 and up compared to this one.

Problems with running a pump on a timer include accidentally running the pump dry if the starting water level was too low, or overflowing the receiving container if it wasn't empty when you start the pump. I still recommend water level switches and/or float valves to avoid flooding or equipment damage.

 

[mcarroll]

Problems with running a pump on a timer include accidentally running the pump dry if the starting water level was too low, or overflowing the receiving container if it wasn't empty when you start the pump. I still recommend water level switches and/or float valves to avoid flooding or equipment damage.

Not a problem for these pumps to run dry.

The other concerns are potentially legit for any system that will be adding or removing water from your tank!

Thankfully there are lot of ways to address these issues – including ways that require nothing more than some creativity in deployment.

One example being that you'd only charge the system for one cycle at a time and execute manually. It's still an automated water change, just not unattended or multi-cycle.

Level control isn't too expensive to implement in technology either though if it's deemed necessary. For example:

aquahub
PumpStopper Kit
Price: $34.99

And it's pretty cheap to do a modern "timer" as well:

• 
  O1US Outlet ($50)
  Smart Outlet with Apple HomeKit Enabled
  
  
• 
  P1 Plug ($30)
  Smart Plug with Apple HomeKit & Google Assistant Enabled
  

 

[Forsaken77]

I don't have a controller, but wouldn't that require me to have power cords run from one place to the other? I can't do that. I don't mind turning on the pump at one end as long as it can automatically stop water when reaching a certain point, then shut the pump off.

As for a pump... I was initially looking at the Avast diaphram pump for $50. I don't know how it works but it's used in ato, but only freshwater. So I would have to mix the saltwater in a can next to the tank, then use my Quiet One pump to just shoot the water into the tank. It's getting the water from the basement to upstairs, 25 feet total with 6 feet vertical.

So I'm thinking it has to be a peristaltic pump, right? Unless there are adapters that can go from a 3/4" barb to 1/4" push connect?

I have an older Spectrapure UPLC-II ato that's brand new and uses a pressure sensor, but I think it's too slow for this. I also wouldn't be able to securely mount the sensor tube on a round can.

Should I install a float valve in the can upstairs? And how would the float stop the water without an auto shutoff kit? Should I install a solenoid? I have absolutely no idea how they work or what they need to work.

 

[Forsaken77]

Not a problem for these pumps to run dry.

The other concerns are potentially legit for any system that will be adding or removing water from your tank!

Thankfully there are lot of ways to address these issues – including ways that require nothing more than some creativity in deployment.

One example being that you'd only charge the system for one cycle at a time and execute manually. It's still an automated water change, just not unattended or multi-cycle.

Level control isn't too expensive to implement in technology either though if it's deemed necessary. For example:



And it's pretty cheap to do a modern "timer" as well:

It's not an auto water change. Once I get the water into the can upstairs, or mix it in the basement and pump mixed water upstairs, it'll go into another can. I'll vacuum the sand, draining out the window, and then put a regular return pump in the can to just pump the needed mixed water back into the tank.

 

[mcarroll]

It's not an auto water change. Once I get the water into the can upstairs, or mix it in the basement and pump mixed water upstairs, it'll go into another can. I'll vacuum the sand, draining out the window, and then put a regular return pump in the can to just pump the needed mixed water back into the tank.

That's pretty much this example....

One example being that you'd only charge the system for one cycle at a time and execute manually. It's still an automated water change, just not unattended or multi-cycle.

Although I'm not sure why you need to have the mixed saltwater in a can upstairs vs just being pumped into the tank from elsewhere....say near where the RODI is made. (Not saying there's no good reason, just that I don't know it.)

You can use a wireless remote outlet...

Westek Outdoor Wireless Remote Receiver Kit
Model# RFK326LC
(141)
$14.99

...or one of the fancier wi-fi ones I linked earlier for control if you have to work remotely from the pump for any reason but still need to have on/off control.

 

[Redleg]

under the rug past a doorway

This is going to cause you problems that 1/4" tubing is eventually going to fail. It's not a good idea to run tubing like this. It will get crushed or punctured

 

[Forsaken77]

This is going to cause you problems that 1/4" tubing is eventually going to fail. It's not a good idea to run tubing like this. It will get crushed or punctured

I actually have it run inside one of those thin, flat rubber strips they use for wires in offices under the rug. So the rubber will take any walking abuse. I could've also fit it between the sliding door and the tack board that holds the carpet down. There was a space small enough for me to stick it in there to. I just didn't want to take the chance of any water freezing in the line during the winter, being right up against the sliding door.

 

[Forsaken77]

That's pretty much this example....



Although I'm not sure why you need to have the mixed saltwater in a can upstairs vs just being pumped into the tank from elsewhere....say near where the RODI is made. (Not saying there's no good reason, just that I don't know it.)

You can use a wireless remote outlet...

...or one of the fancier wi-fi ones I linked earlier for control if you have to work remotely from the pump for any reason but still need to have on/off control.

I actually have 3 of those wireless outlets I bought from Amazon, but they work on IR. So direct line of site is needed and won't turn on a pump in the basement from upstairs.

So I'm going to have to use this one line to pump fresh rodi water up to an ato reservoir by the tank, and also use the same line to fill a can upstairs with saltwater for water changes. I didn't want to just use a peristaltic pump to do a 20-40 gallon water change because it would take to long to fill the tank. So I'd have to pump the water needed to a can by the tank, then use a return pump that will fill the tank in 2 mins.

If you know of a better way to do this, I'm all ears

Oh, and that pump is way too many watts. I'm pushing wattage as is.

 

[mcarroll]

I actually have 3 of those wireless outlets I bought from Amazon, but they work on IR. So direct line of site is needed and won't turn on a pump in the basement from upstairs.

Not IR but they are short range. (I have a bunch too.)

WiFi is the better option then...not a huge difference in cost, but they are more complex.

Maybe list out your limitations ahead of time as best you can and THEN I'll think of another idea.

For example...
Why are you doing water changes this way?
What is your watts limit?
Why do you have a time limit if it can be auto?
Anything else you can think of since your situation is obviously unusual.

 

[Forsaken77]

Not IR but they are short range. (I have a bunch too.)

WiFi is the better option then...not a huge difference in cost, but they are more complex.

Maybe list out your limitations ahead of time as best you can and THEN I'll think of another idea.

For example...
Why are you doing water changes this way?
What is your watts limit?
Why do you have a time limit if it can be auto?
Anything else you can think of since your situation is obviously unusual.

I'll try to clarify, but it's not unusual...

I'm not doing water changes with this, it's just so I don't have to carry so many buckets with a 93 and 180 gallon tanks upstairs with an rodi reservoir in the basement. It's to pump fresh ro water up to refill an ato reservoir on demand AND also pump up mixed saltwater to a localized can by the tank.

Right now I carry 4-8 [5-gal.] buckets of mixed saltwater upstairs and across the house. It's killing me. When I get the buckets by the tank after syphoning out dirty water, I just drop a small return pump in a 5 gal. bucket to pump water back into the tank as quick as possible. When one bucket is getting empty, I pull the pump out and drop it in the next 5 gal. bucket until the tank is refilled.

I syphon the tank with a sand vacuum and it goes outside to a drainage area. I need the fresh saltwater close so I can just drop the return pump in the single, large can when I need it to refill the tank quickly after syphoning (instead of the multiple 5 gal. buckets). Having the water slowly run into the tank from the basement would take too long, thus the reason for the can by the tank.

I'll mix the saltwater in the basement and pump it up when I need it, but it needs to pump 40 gallons at most in a single session.

I'm already pushing the wattage in this area of the house as the fish room is on shared wiring with an apartment we rent, specifically the tenants bedroom with an entertainment center. The heaters alone are taxing on this circuit but when the extension was added to the house, years ago before it was a fish room, they just jumped off the closest wiring for the apartments outlets in the bedroom. Again, these pumps are only when I need to move water and not constantly. I can't give an exact wattage because I don't know the tenants equipment. I just want to try to keep it as low as possible.

I have one 1/4" ro tube ran. I just want to know what equipment or materials I will need to accomplish what I stated above in the safest and easiest way. Maybe something to kill the water pump to the upstairs can if I forget to shut it off as well.

Does that help explain things better?

 

[mcarroll]

Pumps and hoses are the right way to not kill yourself.

But peristaltic pumps (or similar) are the only kind that'll push your water up from the basement. (Unless you're willing to install a $400+ Reeflo or Dolphin pump just for this.)

I dunno what kind of drainage area you're talking about, but saltwater can permanently ruin soil for growing normal plants so be careful.

A pump and hose might be able to reach a real drain better than your gravel vac. (Are you avoiding putting the saltwater down a septic system? Tough position in that case...you're between a rock and a hard place.)

Why not consider separating your water changes from the gravel vac work?

Siphoning through a low-micron sock right back into the sump would eliminate the immediate problem of what to do with the drain water AND the need to rush-fill the tank. You end up with a filter sock to clean instead. Easy!

Then you have the freedom to set up whatever kind of auto-water change system you want that can work as slowly or quickly as it needs to....one like I described, or otherwise. Lots of ideas floating around on here for auto water changes.

No more buckets! Eh?

 

[Forsaken77]

Pumps and hoses are the right way to not kill yourself.

But peristaltic pumps (or similar) are the only kind that'll push your water up from the basement. (Unless you're willing to install a $400+ Reeflo or Dolphin pump just for this.)

I dunno what kind of drainage area you're talking about, but saltwater can permanently ruin soil for growing normal plants so be careful.

A pump and hose might be able to reach a real drain better than your gravel vac. (Are you avoiding putting the saltwater down a septic system? Tough position in that case...you're between a rock and a hard place.)

Why not consider separating your water changes from the gravel vac work?

Siphoning through a low-micron sock right back into the sump would eliminate the immediate problem of what to do with the drain water AND the need to rush-fill the tank. You end up with a filter sock to clean instead. Easy!

Then you have the freedom to set up whatever kind of auto-water change system you want that can work as slowly or quickly as it needs to....one like I described, or otherwise. Lots of ideas floating around on here for auto water changes.

No more buckets! Eh?

I already made a rock garden in the area outside the window with landscaping polyethylene geotextile fabric, that has this giant wild rose bush that nothing can kill, and there's a 5-foot deep drain hidden within the rocks. I've been filling a 20 gallon Brute with the dirty water for years and just pumping it out into this drain. So that's not the concern.

I also tried the sock vacuuming before as well. 100 micron lets too much through and 50 micron clogs to fast when syphoning.

So if I put that peristaltic pump in the basement, which is on a different circuit, I can use that remote outlet to turn it on and off, to push the water up. Will just a simple float upstairs stop the pump in the basment, or will water leak through without and auto shutoff kit? Do I need a solenoid?

 

[mcarroll]

giant wild rose bush that nothing can kill

Those are salt-tolerant, so as long as that's your long term plan, you're all good. Just not too many plants that can take it.

I also tried the sock vacuuming before as well. 100 micron lets too much through and 50 micron clogs to fast when syphoning.

Another option (which doesn't solve the bucket carrying for water changes) is to do your cleaning/siphoning into the Brute and then run a diatom filter (eg. Vortex XL or Marineland Polishing Filter) on it, then return the sparkling clean water to the tank. Maybe this in combo (with the 100µ sock to shorten the polishing cycle) would be best?

Will just a simple float upstairs stop the pump in the basment, or will water leak through without and auto shutoff kit? Do I need a solenoid?

Run-dry is no problem, so if the volume in the tank is correct for the volume that's needed to refill the tank, you can just let it run until there's no more flow – until the saltwater vat is empty. This is the simplest way I cab imagine, but might take some trial and error to fine tune if the basement reservoir isn't just the right volume.

You can easily sets up a float-based auto-shutoff in the salt reservoir for the pump so you can pick a level short of empty though, if that's a requirement.

The little AquaHub kit I linked earlier is probably the cheapest option and should be extremely dependable.

aquahub
PumpStopper Kit
Price: $34.99

(In case I'm blending with another thread and didn't already post it. )

I'm not sure how easy it would be to wire the sensor up to the tank to auto-detect a "full" condition on the sump (instead of a "low level" detect on the reservoir), but have ONLY the shutoff part in the basement.....possible, but sounds like a wiring hassle.

 

[chefjpaul]

I use rodi booster pump for my ATO, about 60 feet away.

 

[mcarroll]

I use rodi booster pump for my ATO, about 60 feet away.

Noisier but maybe cheaper....what flow rate do you get out of it? Any concerns running dry?

 

[chefjpaul]

Noisier but maybe cheaper....what flow rate do you get out of it? Any concerns running dry?

Sorry, been out for a bit.

It's just an aquatec booster pump.
Needs to be lower than what it is filling as it will start a siphon.

I just needed to push water a long distance, between a few rooms, throughout my crown molding and down to tank. My GHL has control over it. Noise isn't a concern as its in the "fish closet"