MP40QD Rusted...

[shred5]

All they need to do is seal them right or use the right materials.
5 years is ridiculous for a magnet. I have some stuff with magnets that is almost 30 years old.

Looking at some of these they have been rusting and leaching for a while.

This is getting to be more and more of these instances.
They also have the rusting shaft issue.

 

[BZOFIQ]

With an Vortech you pay for the name, the R&D and the controller. At least a replacement wet side is only $75.

You've spoken like a true EcoTech fanboy, nothing personal.

Every company has R&D costs and most modern powerheads have a controller. You're paying for the name then?

Per BRS Wet Sides:
MP10:$62,
MP-40:$75,
MP-60:$150

 

[BZOFIQ]

All they need to do is seal them right or use the right materials.
5 years is ridiculous for a magnet. I have some stuff with magnets that is almost 30 years old.

Looking at some of these they have been rusting and leaching for a while.

This is getting to be more and more of these instances.
They also have the rusting shaft issue.

One would be embarrassed to say but I have Hydor Koralias that havent leached in nearly 10, oh and they were like $60 bucks for the whole thing.

 

[shred5]

I am going to add this, something has changed. I have Vortech that are way over 5 years old and no issues and I would bet I have had them for more than 10 years. I have some with the original white or blue controllers. Power supplies needed to be replaced that is it.
With the shaft rusting someone had said they are now sourcing them from China, not sure if true or not. I believe they used to use ceramic shafts too, I will look at my old ones.
All I am saying is something has changed with all these magnets rusting lately and there was never a issue before. How many are rusted and have not pushed the casing open so people do not even know it.

 

[Brew12]

You've spoken like a true EcoTech fanboy, nothing personal.

Why would you make a personal attack and then claim it is nothing personal? You obviously recognized that it was.

That said, if you followed my build threads, you would know I'm not a fan of EcoTech. I have 2 MP40's that are around 4 years old and in great shape. They are in great shape because they sit in a box in my attic. You won't find a single EcoTech product on my tank.

Every company has R&D costs and most modern powerheads have a controller.

Not every company does something fairly revolutionary with R&D, such as having the motor housing outside the tank. They also were a leader in using waveform shaping to reduce pump noise which resulted in the Quite Drive products. Most pumps do not have controllers that can link wireless or have nearly as many control modes. those that do are not $100 or less.

You're paying for the name then?

As the name is the first thing I stated in my post, yes, I do think people pay a premium for the Ecotech name.

With an Vortech you pay for the name, the R&D and the controller.

In my opinion it is a lot like Apple products. Some people love the brands, I don't feel like the company name justifies the product price margins.

One would be embarrassed to say but I have Hydor Koralias that havent leached in nearly 10, oh and they were like $60 bucks for the whole thing.

Now this I will agree with. Koralias are what I keep as my back up power heads. They may not be fancy, but they work and work well.

 

[Brew12]

I am going to add this, something has changed.

I'll have to see if I can find the source, but at one point EcoTech admitted what the problem was. With the latest change to the design they made the covering for the magnets to thin in relation to the consistency the manufacturer was able to produce. They were hoping to simplify the mounting (getting rid of having to twist the dry side front piece for glass size) and improve efficiency. The inconsistency in manufacturing is why some people haven't had any issues and some rust out in a few months. My understanding is that this "should" be resolved now but I haven't heard if they increased the thickness of the cover or improved the manufacturing methods.

 

[redfishbluefish]

You didn't mention your cleaning method, but @ca1ore eluded to the issue with vinegar (acetic acid). The issue using this acid is that it hardly dissociates and therefore acts as a neutral compound now able to penetrate the plastic coating. I no longer use vinegar for cleaning magnets. You'd be better off cleaning with muriatic acid (diluted 1 to 10) or citric acid (3/4 - 1 cup made up to one gallon).

 

[BZOFIQ]

Why would you make a personal attack and then claim it is nothing personal? You obviously recognized that it was.

It wasn't personal at all. Perhaps I should have been clearer. Your statement sounded exactly like the one a fanboy would use.

That said, if you followed my build threads, you would know I'm not a fan of EcoTech. I have 2 MP40's that are around 4 years old and in great shape. They are in great shape because they sit in a box in my attic. You won't find a single EcoTech product on my tank.

I'm following a lot of threads here and on other boards and have watched tons of YouTube vids as I am looking for both inspiration and to see problems to avoid with my next build BUT I don't keep track as to who loves EcoTech and who doesn't so apologies there. There is certainly lots of "product placement" with online "influencers" who forget to disclose their ties with the company. I ignore these shameless plugs all the time and prefer feedback from people who have had the equipment for years.

As the name is the first thing I stated in my post, yes, I do think people pay a premium for the Ecotech name.

Like the list of ingredients, should have paid attention to the order :)

In my opinion it is a lot like Apple products. Some people love the brands, I don't feel like the company name justifies the product price margins.

You nailed it! Apple is king at taking money away from people. Nobody else is able to market, package and sell their (in IMHO inferior) product for the $$$ they can.

Now this I will agree with. Koralias are what I keep as my back up power heads. They may not be fancy, but they work and work well.

I've seen multiple reports of people who had problems with early powerheads that were spinning backwards upon startup; that was fixed by Hydor but people never trusted the brand again.

I never had any problems with single powerhead and I have used nearly a dozen; still do in my "temporary" holding setup. The magnum 8s, although large by today's standards are absolutely great; no infinite flow control but ton of flow at low W and ability to connect to a cheap controller alternating multiple units.

Off topic....

Sadly, over the past decade we've been conditioned to accept that this hobby is a very expensive one. $500 poweheads, $1000 skimmers, $1000 per polyp corals....the list goes on.

I belong to a local society with majority of members being freshwater. They aren't converting to SW because it is harder (well some do), everybody says that saltwater is just crazy expensive.

We are at a point in this hobby where if you don't have a multi-thousand dollar setup full of SPS, you are being looked down upon.

Some people look more at what's in the stand then your DT. These same individuals will have you believe that without this crazy expensive equipment it is impossible to be successful in this hobby.

Mention softies and people's eyes roll......but that a topic for another thread.

 

[Potatohead]

Seems like a shame that a pump that costs hundreds of dollars can only be expected to last 18 months or a couple years... I have 10 year old MaxiJets that are still going strong.

It's not the whole pump, just the wet side, which is ~$70. The ease of cleaning Vortechs alone makes it worth it IMO.

 

[PedroYoung]

I am going to add this, something has changed. I have Vortech that are way over 5 years old and no issues and I would bet I have had them for more than 10 years. I have some with the original white or blue controllers. Power supplies needed to be replaced that is it.
With the shaft rusting someone had said they are now sourcing them from China, not sure if true or not. I believe they used to use ceramic shafts too, I will look at my old ones.
All I am saying is something has changed with all these magnets rusting lately and there was never a issue before. How many are rusted and have not pushed the casing open so people do not even know it.

I had some of the old Pre QD MP-40's for 5-6 years with no failures. The QD's are def more prone to magnet swelling (had 2 QD MP-10's go out at 18 months). The old ones had the ceramic shaft too. I've always been a fan of the MP's for the slim profile and the versatility of the controllers (easy to sync up pumps etc). They replaced my MP-10 wet sides with just my serial numbers and the receipt from BRS (nice to have access to all my old orders on line like that). I had mixed feelings about the failure. Fortunately I keep spares of just about everything so was able to keep going and they handled the replacement the way I felt they should, BUT after so many threads on this topic I'd like to see something from EcoTech on what if anything they've done to fix the problems with swelling magnets and rusty shafts.

 

[ksed]

I'll have to see if I can find the source, but at one point EcoTech admitted what the problem was. With the latest change to the design they made the covering for the magnets to thin in relation to the consistency the manufacturer was able to produce. They were hoping to simplify the mounting (getting rid of having to twist the dry side front piece for glass size) and improve efficiency. The inconsistency in manufacturing is why some people haven't had any issues and some rust out in a few months. My understanding is that this "should" be resolved now but I haven't heard if they increased the thickness of the cover or improved the manufacturing methods.

I may stand corrected but if I remember correctly, the pre QD wetside , or the originals were using ferrite magnets which did not require the plastic casing as ferrite does not rust. To gain more GPH they went with a more powerful neodymium magnetic which needs to be sealed to prevent rusting.

 

[Brew12]

I may stand corrected but if I remember correctly, the pre QD wetside , or the originals were using ferrite magnets which did not require the plastic casing as ferrite does not rust. To gain more GPH they went with a more powerful neodymium magnetic which needs to be sealed to prevent rusting.

Ferrite is iron based which will most definitely rust.

 

[ksed]

Ferrite is iron based which will most definitely rust.

What type of magnets are used when no coating is used?

 

[ksed]

@Brew12

 

[ksed]

I stand corrected wetside a were always neodymium

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12

I'm not buying it. Ferrite magnets are an oxide of iron, but they can always degrade more, even if it isn't technically "rusting". They are also commonly combined with other materials, including carbon steels, which will most certainly rust. Copper is another material commonly used in ferrite magnets. So while technically correct to say ferrite will not rust, they will still undergo other forms of corrosion and potentially leach contaminants in a system.

 

[ksed]

I’ll take a picture of my Tunze which has ferrite rotor. Also those common DC pumps used today most have ferrite. I’ll take them apart tomorrow.

 

[ca1ore]

Bah, ‘fanboy’ is a foolishly pejorative term used when somebody can find no cogent argument. Vortech attempts a physical feat that no other pump attempts. Speaks volumes I think that none of the rip-off companies have tried to copy it. If you value what the vortech does and how it does it, you also must accept greater wear and tear. If you don’t value what it does ..... buy Tunze.

 

[ksed]

Here’s a picture of a impeller on a maxjet

 

[cromag27]

not all ferrite magnets are created the same. there are three different types - hard, semi-hard and soft. each contain different material aside from iron oxide.