Multiple dwarf angels in one tank?

Devaji

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I built my own acclimation box out of egg crate. If you haven't read this whole thread, I suggest the middle for the acclimation box method. It has proved successful on all new additions with a week long separation method.

@Tori has way more dwarf angels than I do and a much smaller tank with zero issues. I still plan to add more angels, we just haven't seen any locally that we don't already have or isn't diseased.
I have a largest octo aquatics acclimation box. But I need more space I can build an egg crate one.

So you’re saying adding the box to the middle of the tank has proven more successful results?

I am oddly excited about the angels. After all it’s a Fowlr gotta have some classic non reef safe fish.
 
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reefsamurai

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I have a largest octo aquatics acclimation box. But I need more space I can build an egg crate one.

So you’re saying adding the box to the middle of the tank has proven more successful results?

I am oddly excited about the angels. After all it’s a Fowlr gotta have some classic non reef safe fish.

I keep mine on the front corner but that's the only place it fits and it's out of the way of one of the power heads. Its the size of a 10gal so plenty of swimming space. It has caves to hide in so it can feel the most secure. When feeding that doesn't go through the return pump, I feed the cage first some the fish get used to it being there and it's not a competition. All my fish go through this and so it has work this far.
 

Tori

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@Tori has way more dwarf angels than I do and a much smaller tank with zero issues. I still plan to add more angels, we just haven't seen any locally that we don't already have or isn't diseased.
Not exactly zero. I've had issues with flame angels bullying coral beauties for some reason. There's always some small amount of 3 second chases here and there with the dwarf angels but the flame on coral beauty aggression I'm talking about is way beyond that. My original flame angel started trying to kill my biota captive bred coral beauty just out of nowhere one day. The flame angel was the fourth dwarf I added, after the two flame backs, so I was a little surprised considering those 4, including the coral beauty, had been together over a year. I added more flame angels to distract it but it was really honed in on the coral beauty for some reason and the coral beauty was getting pretty beat up. I ended up moving the CB to my 20 gallon long so he could heal up and put some size on and I donated that original flame to my lfs. It had gotten pretty big and was even starting to beef with one of the multicolors, but the multicolor wasn't really putting up with it, which is another reason why they seem pretty hardy to me. After donating the flame, I ended up with 4 smaller flame angels that are doing pretty good, so not all bad I guess. I always thought a flame harem would be cool anyway. Several months ago now, I picked up a "deep water" coral beauty at the lfs and it was doing great for about 4 months but then the larger of the 4 flame angels started going at him pretty hard. He was a little bigger than my other CB so I thought he would do well he was getting beat up. He's currently in an acclimation box healing up. Just kind of weird to see that happen twice when all the other dwarfs get along relatively well. I size probably factors in a lot so it's better to go for smaller sizes for the more aggressive angels. To test this, I added a rusty angel I came across a few weeks ago, that was a little bigger than the larger flame angel. The flame angel went after him right away but he was able to hold his own, so now they're just getting along. I should also note that when I was looking at the rusty in the lfs he seemed more on the aggressive side. He kept eye contact with me and looked like he was trying to intimidate me. So far he's been a model citizen. Good find for sure.

So other than the weird flame angel/coral beauty thing, I would say no real aggression or issues keeping multiple dwarfs together in a 4 foot tank.

Also, I can't recall if I shared this already, but I've had really good luck ordering from seahorse savvy. They actually get a good variety of angels, you just have to keep checking when update their stock list. Just wanted to share in case anyone is looking to order online and it helps.
https://seahorsesavvy.com/collections/angelfish
 

Devaji

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Not exactly zero. I've had issues with flame angels bullying coral beauties for some reason. There's always some small amount of 3 second chases here and there with the dwarf angels but the flame on coral beauty aggression I'm talking about is way beyond that. My original flame angel started trying to kill my biota captive bred coral beauty just out of nowhere one day. The flame angel was the fourth dwarf I added, after the two flame backs, so I was a little surprised considering those 4, including the coral beauty, had been together over a year. I added more flame angels to distract it but it was really honed in on the coral beauty for some reason and the coral beauty was getting pretty beat up. I ended up moving the CB to my 20 gallon long so he could heal up and put some size on and I donated that original flame to my lfs. It had gotten pretty big and was even starting to beef with one of the multicolors, but the multicolor wasn't really putting up with it, which is another reason why they seem pretty hardy to me. After donating the flame, I ended up with 4 smaller flame angels that are doing pretty good, so not all bad I guess. I always thought a flame harem would be cool anyway. Several months ago now, I picked up a "deep water" coral beauty at the lfs and it was doing great for about 4 months but then the larger of the 4 flame angels started going at him pretty hard. He was a little bigger than my other CB so I thought he would do well he was getting beat up. He's currently in an acclimation box healing up. Just kind of weird to see that happen twice when all the other dwarfs get along relatively well. I size probably factors in a lot so it's better to go for smaller sizes for the more aggressive angels. To test this, I added a rusty angel I came across a few weeks ago, that was a little bigger than the larger flame angel. The flame angel went after him right away but he was able to hold his own, so now they're just getting along. I should also note that when I was looking at the rusty in the lfs he seemed more on the aggressive side. He kept eye contact with me and looked like he was trying to intimidate me. So far he's been a model citizen. Good find for sure.

So other than the weird flame angel/coral beauty thing, I would say no real aggression or issues keeping multiple dwarfs together in a 4 foot tank.

Also, I can't recall if I shared this already, but I've had really good luck ordering from seahorse savvy. They actually get a good variety of angels, you just have to keep checking when update their stock list. Just wanted to share in case anyone is looking to order online and it helps.
https://seahorsesavvy.com/collections/angelfish

thanks for the update! I am excited for a the angels. hopefully they all get along and i may be able to add more than 5 :)
dont want to push it but it's a big tank i woul dbe happy with 5 but if I could have more I prob. would.

I have a seahorse setup just fighting a slime algae but plan to get my SH from her. i'll check out her angels.
 
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reefsamurai

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Not exactly zero. I've had issues with flame angels bullying coral beauties for some reason. There's always some small amount of 3 second chases here and there with the dwarf angels but the flame on coral beauty aggression I'm talking about is way beyond that. My original flame angel started trying to kill my biota captive bred coral beauty just out of nowhere one day. The flame angel was the fourth dwarf I added, after the two flame backs, so I was a little surprised considering those 4, including the coral beauty, had been together over a year. I added more flame angels to distract it but it was really honed in on the coral beauty for some reason and the coral beauty was getting pretty beat up. I ended up moving the CB to my 20 gallon long so he could heal up and put some size on and I donated that original flame to my lfs. It had gotten pretty big and was even starting to beef with one of the multicolors, but the multicolor wasn't really putting up with it, which is another reason why they seem pretty hardy to me. After donating the flame, I ended up with 4 smaller flame angels that are doing pretty good, so not all bad I guess. I always thought a flame harem would be cool anyway. Several months ago now, I picked up a "deep water" coral beauty at the lfs and it was doing great for about 4 months but then the larger of the 4 flame angels started going at him pretty hard. He was a little bigger than my other CB so I thought he would do well he was getting beat up. He's currently in an acclimation box healing up. Just kind of weird to see that happen twice when all the other dwarfs get along relatively well. I size probably factors in a lot so it's better to go for smaller sizes for the more aggressive angels. To test this, I added a rusty angel I came across a few weeks ago, that was a little bigger than the larger flame angel. The flame angel went after him right away but he was able to hold his own, so now they're just getting along. I should also note that when I was looking at the rusty in the lfs he seemed more on the aggressive side. He kept eye contact with me and looked like he was trying to intimidate me. So far he's been a model citizen. Good find for sure.

So other than the weird flame angel/coral beauty thing, I would say no real aggression or issues keeping multiple dwarfs together in a 4 foot tank.

Also, I can't recall if I shared this already, but I've had really good luck ordering from seahorse savvy. They actually get a good variety of angels, you just have to keep checking when update their stock list. Just wanted to share in case anyone is looking to order online and it helps.
https://seahorsesavvy.com/collections/angelfish

That place has a what they are claiming to be a pair of cherub angels with a 20% end of year sale. Almost makes the shipping non-existent if you order enough.
 

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That place has a what they are claiming to be a pair of cherub angels with a 20% end of year sale. Almost makes the shipping non-existent if you order enough.
Man, I've had no luck buying pairs but have been somewhat lucky just getting angels to pair up I guess. My flame back pair were just two flame backs I got a different times. I ordered my multicolors at the same time and just ordered one medium size and one small size and got lucky. My bicolor pair were around the same size and just happened not to hate each other and eventually paired up. On the other hand, I bought my cherub angel as a pair and woke up to one murdered cherub in the acclimation box the next morning. Even the three times I've tried buying a mated pair of coral banded shrimp (gold, blue and plain) one of the pair has seen it as a good opportunity for divorce just about as soon as they hit the water. Maybe the cherubs would have worked out if I acclimated them separately or put a divider in there though. Lesson learned either way.
 

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I just found this thread after having started my 210g tank back in August. At first I was planning to just have a FOWLR, but not I have added a bunch of cheap, easy corals. Anyways, I already have a really nice CB and Flameback in the tank for a couple of months now with ZERO aggression. I just picked up a rusty that I have in QT and may grab a lemonpeel that a local store has had for quite a while.

I really want a Flame, but after reading this thread, I'm nervous. Would it have a better chance of working if I already had 5-6 established angels in the tank, then added the flame?
 

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Nope tank is dry as a bone. Longest slowest build ever…
Just getting my stocking list together so I can send it to the QT guy.
My goal is a peaceful FOWLR - no predators and not to mean. I know both the emp. And dwarfs can be mean at time but less so then triggers etc.
Having planning prior to installing any tank is one of the best things you can do in this hobby, it can save you a lot of headaches, and although fish are unpredictable in any way it should be of great help to have a collection of data, fish experiences and behaviors you want to add together. Speaking about myself, I have the stand for a 150 gallon tank but that's all I've had for 5 years, nothing can be slower than that :D .
 

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I just found this thread after having started my 210g tank back in August. At first I was planning to just have a FOWLR, but not I have added a bunch of cheap, easy corals. Anyways, I already have a really nice CB and Flameback in the tank for a couple of months now with ZERO aggression. I just picked up a rusty that I have in QT and may grab a lemonpeel that a local store has had for quite a while.

I really want a Flame, but after reading this thread, I'm nervous. Would it have a better chance of working if I already had 5-6 established angels in the tank, then added the flame?


I can give you my experience. Over time I've added one angel after another. Adding all at once would probably have been the easiest way to do it. I now have 6.

I started with a coral beauty. My next addition was a bi-color. There was some chasing and the bi-color stayed up towards the top corners. I watched for anything other then chasing up to the corners and ready with a breeder box. But that was it for about a week. The coral beauty has never been aggressive toward the bi-color again. I never had to break out the breeder box.

Next addition was a flame. Again the coral beauty took off after it. But same as before just chased the flame up to the corners. Again, for about a week. Never aggressive towards that flame again.

Then I added a multi-colored. The coral beauty flipped out. Went psycho on it and took a chuck from the dorsal fin. Broke out the breeder box and put the multi-color in for about a week. The multi-color was a good size too and slightly bigger then the coral beauty. The other two were smaller. Maybe that had something to do with it. After a week I did another trial and the coral beauty just chased the multi-color to the corners for about another week.

Revenge.... The multi-color after getting acclimated to the environment and fed well started to chase the coral beauty and do a move to block the coral beauty into caves and do a side ways wiggle like I'm the dominant angel now and I can trap you in there. That lasted aggressively for a couple weeks and rarely happens anymore.

Then I added another flame. The multi-color and coral beauty lost their minds and were both super aggressive and out came the breeder box. One week in, 2nd week back in, 3rd week back in, 4th week back in and finally the 5 week they did a little chasing but not terrible and died down after that.

Now recently I just added a lemon peel. Nothing. The most aggression turned out to be from my bi-color that has ignored the others. Chased the lemon up to the corners for just a day then the lemon pushed back once and that was it.

Now a days there will be a little chasing here and there but it's quick and uneventful and often humorous. One will chase quickly another but then the one being chased will just abruptly stop and flash itself sideways and will end up chasing the chasey quickly.

Periodically the multi-color will do its dominance dance blocking the coral beauty in a cave but that's about it.

My two flames do something else weird. I don't think they are a pair and no idea how to sex any of them. But what is the slightly bigger and seems more dominant flame will run up to the other flame. The other flame will just freeze side ways to it flashing it's dorsal fin but not doing a dominance wiggle. Then the bigger flame looks like it does a quick nip but then both just kind of swim off. I have no idea what that's about.

Can see my five in this video


And pictures of them and now the lemonpeel in my tank thread
 

Devaji

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Having planning prior to installing any tank is one of the best things you can do in this hobby, it can save you a lot of headaches, and although fish are unpredictable in any way it should be of great help to have a collection of data, fish experiences and behaviors you want to add together. Speaking about myself, I have the stand for a 150 gallon tank but that's all I've had for 5 years, nothing can be slower than that :D .
completely agree, planning goes a long way.

that is a pretty slow build. but think of all the knowledge you have gathered.
 

LaloJ

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completely agree, planning goes a long way.

that is a pretty slow build. but think of all the knowledge you have gathered.
That is correct, not long ago I had many doubts about qt tanks, now I can do it without problems, reading books and articles on the web, as well as many topics of interest here in the forum are of great help, it's like studying for take a practical exam.
 

Tori

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nice bud. fellow peninsula lover?
is that the RS or WB?
No, it's a Water Box 130.

1000001322.jpg
 

Tori

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I can give you my experience. Over time I've added one angel after another. Adding all at once would probably have been the easiest way to do it. I now have 6.

I started with a coral beauty. My next addition was a bi-color. There was some chasing and the bi-color stayed up towards the top corners. I watched for anything other then chasing up to the corners and ready with a breeder box. But that was it for about a week. The coral beauty has never been aggressive toward the bi-color again. I never had to break out the breeder box.

Next addition was a flame. Again the coral beauty took off after it. But same as before just chased the flame up to the corners. Again, for about a week. Never aggressive towards that flame again.

Then I added a multi-colored. The coral beauty flipped out. Went psycho on it and took a chuck from the dorsal fin. Broke out the breeder box and put the multi-color in for about a week. The multi-color was a good size too and slightly bigger then the coral beauty. The other two were smaller. Maybe that had something to do with it. After a week I did another trial and the coral beauty just chased the multi-color to the corners for about another week.

Revenge.... The multi-color after getting acclimated to the environment and fed well started to chase the coral beauty and do a move to block the coral beauty into caves and do a side ways wiggle like I'm the dominant angel now and I can trap you in there. That lasted aggressively for a couple weeks and rarely happens anymore.

Then I added another flame. The multi-color and coral beauty lost their minds and were both super aggressive and out came the breeder box. One week in, 2nd week back in, 3rd week back in, 4th week back in and finally the 5 week they did a little chasing but not terrible and died down after that.

Now recently I just added a lemon peel. Nothing. The most aggression turned out to be from my bi-color that has ignored the others. Chased the lemon up to the corners for just a day then the lemon pushed back once and that was it.

Now a days there will be a little chasing here and there but it's quick and uneventful and often humorous. One will chase quickly another but then the one being chased will just abruptly stop and flash itself sideways and will end up chasing the chasey quickly.

Periodically the multi-color will do its dominance dance blocking the coral beauty in a cave but that's about it.

My two flames do something else weird. I don't think they are a pair and no idea how to sex any of them. But what is the slightly bigger and seems more dominant flame will run up to the other flame. The other flame will just freeze side ways to it flashing it's dorsal fin but not doing a dominance wiggle. Then the bigger flame looks like it does a quick nip but then both just kind of swim off. I have no idea what that's about.

Can see my five in this video


And pictures of them and now the lemonpeel in my tank thread

Great read and awesome tank! Really like your fish selection. Seems like your flames might be paired up. Most of my pairs will do the freeze, nuzzling, rotating action before the lights shutdown. Not sure exactly what it is either but since they aren't trying to kill each other I just take it as a good sign :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:
 
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reefsamurai

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Hey look, more than one post in less than a month! I'm terrible at doing updates here so something I'm trying to be better about.

The new gobies are doing great, chomping at the sand to head to the big tank. So far so good on observation. They eat like pigs and the observation tank sand bed has never been cleaner. I will be sad to see them head to the MT.

I dropped by the LFS and ended up grabbing 10 new nassasarius snails (vibrex possibly) and a ring cowry.

The owner wants some of my paly grandis and one of my green elephant ears mushrooms to trade for some of his grandis and maybe an ironman discoma.

Angel related he has a Bicolor that is in one of the cupremine dosed tanks and is visibly eating nori. They just added in a mimic surgeon from a new order yesterday so I opted to hold off till Monday/Tuesday (weather depending, were supposed to get 8" or so). I want to make sure the surgeon gets all medicated and doesn't transfer any disease that isn't treated.

Other than that, I replaced my aging(and possibly kaput) finnex heater with two aquatops and added an Inkbird controller.
 
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reefsamurai

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I need some real anecdotal experience here. My lfs with the bicolor angel also has a lemon peel that is very healthy and is a return from a customer taking down their tank. They said it's eating well, healthy and half grown(also in the treated tanks just in case).

What are your experiences with these angels? Personality wise and coral consumption wise? I hear reports of them destroy the aquarium for LPS corals. The hardest thing in the tank is the gorgonians so I could be safe?

I'll be going back to inspect either angel on Monday or Tuesday.
 

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I would put lemon peels highest on the jerk scale from my experience. They were the only angels I've gotten so far that really annoyed any coral to point of not opening in my tank, Candy Canes and Duncans mostly but probably other stuff too. They leave torches and hammers alone though otherwise it would have been a deal breaker. It was also more manageable after I removed one them, hoping it was the worst offender but who knows. The one left in the tank doesn't bother me enough to want to take it out now. Plus, they sure are pretty. I would probably roll the dice.
 

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The beauty of lemonpeel angels continues to make them candidates for any saltwater tank, I don't remember if I mentioned this here but the flavissima complex is very prone to stinging corals in the reef tank, especially LPS corals. Of course there are many cases where there is no damage to the corals, but in a large system with a lot of coral, it's worth thinking two times.
 

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