Multiple dwarf angels in one tank?

Tori

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Well we are back to square one in the observation tank. When I came home from from work on Friday evening, the keyhole was laying on the sand barely breathing. I scooped him up and did the usual assessment for disease. I didn't find any but what I did find was a malnourished fish. Our best guess is that it had parasites or it never ate and that there is something in the tank unseen that was eating the food. We never physically watched any food being eaten, only disappearing from the sand bed. See pics below for skinny ness.

Tori, how many tanks do you have? It seems like you have an endless supply of QT space for new fish.

On the plus side, my birthday went swimmingly, literally!! Halfway through golfing, the sky opened up and I was wetter than the bottom of the ocean.
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Oh no! Sorry to hear! I'm definitely not an expert, but with dwarf angels I feel like it's really hit or miss getting one that eats prepared foods in an aquarium. I had a multibar that never really ate anything or pecked around the rocks who didn't last very long. The next one I got happened to accept both dry and frozen food, which really just seems like it was a stroke of luck. The multibar I got after that doesn't seem to be eating any of the food I'm putting in but it is at least pecking around the rocks and sand so I think there's still hope.

I have 2 other tanks ruining that I can put stuff in but I don't really QT much to be honest. I try to get pre-quarantined or aquarium conditioned fish as much as I can or I'll try to watch the fish at the lfs for a couple of weeks. This is after getting velvet and losing 26 out of 30 fish during my initial stocking attempt, so my version of being more careful. I also go with more of a parasite "management" system by running uv and dosing H2O2. There was at least one of the 4 remaining fish I was never getting out without tearing everything down so I tried this route. I think your route is definitely better though. For me I think a finicky dwarf angel will have a better chance in my established tank rather than with my subpar QT skills but if I pick up a random fish at the lfs without seeing it multiple weeks I'll put it in my qt tank, like the possum wrasse and hectors goby I added recently. I also treat with prazipro for flukes every 4 to 6 months just in case since the angels aren't being QTd and they're know to have flukes.

Happy birthday! Glad everything else went relatively well
 

LaloJ

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Well we are back to square one in the observation tank. When I came home from from work on Friday evening, the keyhole was laying on the sand barely breathing. I scooped him up and did the usual assessment for disease. I didn't find any but what I did find was a malnourished fish. Our best guess is that it had parasites or it never ate and that there is something in the tank unseen that was eating the food. We never physically watched any food being eaten, only disappearing from the sand bed. See pics below for skinny ness.

Tori, how many tanks do you have? It seems like you have an endless supply of QT space for new fish.

On the plus side, my birthday went swimmingly, literally!! Halfway through golfing, the sky opened up and I was wetter than the bottom of the ocean.
IMG_20230701_121933227_HDR.jpg
IMG_20230701_132157849.jpg


IMG_20230630_183326904.jpg
IMG_20230630_183336830.jpg
IMG_20230630_183344533.jpg
Congratulations for your birthday, sorry for the loss of the keyhole angel, I still think it's likely that the pale tones near the operculum may have indicated something. I have the same situation, Eibli angel with internal parasites, the type looks a little discolored in some areas, and in other areas it develops some brighter scales I have no idea why, as well as some goldfish or scalare angels look "pearly" scales sometimes . He has lost a lot of weight despite eating enough, and I can tell that in your angel keyhole there seems to be perhaps a slighter weight loss.
 
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reefsamurai

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Just a quick update that no news is good news. All current angel inhabitants are doing well and staying fat and healthy. I'm pretty sure that the half black has paired off with the eibli as they are rarely seen far or apart from each other. The imperator continues to rule the tank, the coral beauty comes out a lot more now and the xanthurus is just plain pretty.

That big green mushroom is splitting again(seems to every few months, see pic below) and I've begun to propagate the gorgonian all over the tank.

Looking into auto feeders now for some pellet automation. More of a plan for the future for when I have so many fish that picking at rocks is no longer a viable option.

Lastly we were offered a deal on a navarchus but declined due to the imperator already in the aquarium. I do not think it would be tolerant of another apex species. I could be wrong but, it will chase the xanthurus around if it feels the need. The search continues for more angels and no one locally really has any.


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reefsamurai

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Back from the trenches. Just the past week or so things have slowed down both at work and in my other hobby (model trains). Video update for progress report. Only major issue lately has not really been an issue, found that the protein skimmer air intake screw was dialed back for about a week. Must have been bumped.

 

LaloJ

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Back from the trenches. Just the past week or so things have slowed down both at work and in my other hobby (model trains). Video update for progress report. Only major issue lately has not really been an issue, found that the protein skimmer air intake screw was dialed back for about a week. Must have been bumped.


I like that emperor angel, looking pretty good, just out of curiosity, what are the nitrate levels in your tank? About your other hobby, do you mention train models, do you make scale models or drawings or what is it about? My son is a train fan.
 
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reefsamurai

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I like that emperor angel, looking pretty good, just out of curiosity, what are the nitrate levels in your tank? About your other hobby, do you mention train models, do you make scale models or drawings or what is it about? My son is a train fan.
My nitrates always waver right around 25 or less. I never had issues with bubble algae until I got a rock of zoos years ago and they have never gone away since.

The bicolor has been out and about picking at things in the aquarium. Looks like the nori clip has been picked at some so hopefully the trend continues. I'll post pics from the bag last night

I have an entire basement operations layout. I can host up to 10 people to run the railroad. You can find it on FB if you search garvinsclubcar.


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reefsamurai

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@Tori how is your bicolor? Ive observed so far that this bicolor is quite active in the Twilight and dawn hours of the day. How is yours for activity times?

My suspicions from months ago has been confirmed, the half black and eibli are now a solid pair. Would be neat if they spawned albeit I have no way to raise the fry.
 
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Over a month update and we have new inhabitants... Unfortunately not angels though. The Bicolor I previously posted about last month, lasted all of three days. It stopped eating and while I was on a day trip to a different city, passed in the morning hours. We are currently taking a break from angels unless something really strikes our fancy.

We did pick up a confirmed pair of orange diamond gobies. They have happily made a home in the QT tank and readily take food. Also have made it past the 3 day mark.

Have also purchased a purple magnifica feather duster which is in the sump. Doing well so far although I'd like to see it somewhere more visible.

Lastly we have seen the coral banded shrimp for the first time in a year. I was night hunting and caught it hanging out under a rock. It has dropped it's claws and was regrowing new ones, so perhaps it was booted from a back cave.
 

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so what's everyone thoughts about mixing 5 dwarf angels with a emp. angel in a 70x30 200 gallon tank.
flame
CB
lemon peel
red strip
bicolor
the idea would be to add the dwarfs ( if I can get them all Qted ) at once.
Get 3 flames or 3 CBs or just 1 flame and 1 CB
 
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reefsamurai

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so what's everyone thoughts about mixing 5 dwarf angels with a emp. angel in a 70x30 200 gallon tank.
flame
CB
lemon peel
red strip
bicolor
the idea would be to add the dwarfs ( if I can get them all Qted ) at once.

My experience is the more the better due to aggression and pecking orders. I did not add all mine at once as I use an 45ish day observation/QT period and if all is well, then a week long stint in the DT via an acclimation cage.

The imperator is definitely the ruler of the tank. It did not start out as the biggest fish but has outgrown everyone. For the most part it ignores everyone else unless the xanthurus is directly in it's way. It will move it. The dwarfs for the most part also ignore each other but when feeding is occuring, the pecking orders is the edible/half black pair and the cb last.
 

LaloJ

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so what's everyone thoughts about mixing 5 dwarf angels with a emp. angel in a 70x30 200 gallon tank.
flame
CB
lemon peel
red strip
bicolor
the idea would be to add the dwarfs ( if I can get them all Qted ) at once.
If you already have the emperor angelfish as an established fish then it is likely to be aggressive towards any of the dwarf angels you wish to add, if you add 5 the aggressiveness will probably decrease or disperse. As for the angels you are listing, I put the red stripe as the most aggressive of them, remember that the aspects are generalized when comparing the species.
 

Tori

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If you already have the emperor angelfish as an established fish then it is likely to be aggressive towards any of the dwarf angels you wish to add, if you add 5 the aggressiveness will probably decrease or disperse. As for the angels you are listing, I put the red stripe as the most aggressive of them, remember that the aspects are generalized when comparing the species.
From my limited experience I would agree with everything about the dwarf angels. No experience with the bigger angels yet.
 

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If you already have the emperor angelfish as an established fish then it is likely to be aggressive towards any of the dwarf angels you wish to add, if you add 5 the aggressiveness will probably decrease or disperse. As for the angels you are listing, I put the red stripe as the most aggressive of them, remember that the aspects are generalized when comparing the species.
Nope tank is dry as a bone. Longest slowest build ever…
Just getting my stocking list together so I can send it to the QT guy.
My goal is a peaceful FOWLR - no predators and not to mean. I know both the emp. And dwarfs can be mean at time but less so then triggers etc.
 

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My experience is the more the better due to aggression and pecking orders. I did not add all mine at once as I use an 45ish day observation/QT period and if all is well, then a week long stint in the DT via an acclimation cage.

The imperator is definitely the ruler of the tank. It did not start out as the biggest fish but has outgrown everyone. For the most part it ignores everyone else unless the xanthurus is directly in it's way. It will move it. The dwarfs for the most part also ignore each other but when feeding is occuring, the pecking orders is the edible/half black pair and the cb last.
That’s was my understand to the more the better.
Not sure I’ll be able to add all at once. Getting my fish QT for me. At this point that’s the idea anyway.
I do have a large acclamation box so that should help.

Hopefully this works out as I am excited about a tank of angels!
 
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reefsamurai

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That’s was my understand to the more the better.
Not sure I’ll be able to add all at once. Getting my fish QT for me. At this point that’s the idea anyway.
I do have a large acclamation box so that should help.

Hopefully this works out as I am excited about a tank of angels!
I built my own acclimation box out of egg crate. If you haven't read this whole thread, I suggest the middle for the acclimation box method. It has proved successful on all new additions with a week long separation method.

@Tori has way more dwarf angels than I do and a much smaller tank with zero issues. I still plan to add more angels, we just haven't seen any locally that we don't already have or isn't diseased.
 

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