Murder, or is something wrong?

[MichaelReefer]

I have a head scratcher and am starting to get very frustrated. So I will begin here:

I Recently moved my tank in my house due to a remodel so I held off on new fish/coral for the last few months. I recently picked up a Melenarus wrasse, foxface, fire fish, midas blenny, and corris wrasse (not all together, at different times over the last month or so).

Came home to a Melanarus Wrasse dead a few days ago. I came home to the fox face dead yesterday (no visible wounds, looked like he had died within a few hours of coming home and saw him before I left for work), and now the corris wrasse this morning (again, still "soft", no visible wounds, ate at 7pm last night). Both were active up until death.

This was happening to me months ago but my suspect was my aggressive yellow tang....I re aquascaped the tank and since I have re added the fish upon the tank move, he has mellowed out dramatically and I no longer see him attacking other fish or chasing them...in fact he totally ignored them when I added the new fish.

My current tank inhabitants:
-Paired Picasso Clown and Ocellaris Clownfish
-Yellow Tang
-Fire Fish
-Midas Blenny
-Blue Spotted Puffer
-Starry Blenny

All fish Except the fire fish and Midas Blenny (Since the foxface , Melanarus and Coris are dead now) have been in the tank over 3 years now and have no apparent health issues. It appears only things I am adding NEW are dying. All of the fish I recently added have been in the tank about a month, eat daily, graze and swim all day and have showed no problems until they randomly die.

Alk: 8.35
CA: 445
MG: 1312
PH: Sits between 8.0-8.3

I am somewhat flabbergasted and have absolutely no idea what is going on. Really need some advice. The fact that they last a month or more makes me think its not something with the water or the tank? But hell, who knows at this point.

 

[Timfish]

What is the history of the new fish? If they were all housed together in the same system at some point it could be something that came in wiht them. It also could be a disease established in your system your existing fish are resistant/immune too.

 

[GillMeister]

If there are no obvious signs of wounds or illness you should suspect something in the water. Send a sample in for an ICP test.

 

[MichaelReefer]

What is the history of the new fish? If they were all housed together in the same system at some point it could be something that came in wiht them. It also could be a disease established in your system your existing fish are resistant/immune too.

They all are from the same store (Very reputable LFS which I am very good friends with and generally get first picks when things come in).

They all came in on different shipments, from different vendors, and were in the LFS tanks for less than a day pretty much (Some never even hit the LFS tanks)

 

[MichaelReefer]

If there are no obvious signs of wounds or illness you should suspect something in the water. Send a sample in for an ICP test.

That was my next thought, however why would all of my fish not be effected? I also did a massive water change when I added these fish because I moved my tank.

It's also odd to me that they last nearly a month, continue to eat, swim and be active all day long.

 

[MichaelReefer]

@Jay Hemdal

 

[Timfish]

That was my next though, however why would all of my fish not be effected? I also did a massive water change when I added these fish because I moved my tank.

Keep in mind stress level are very different between your established fish and the new fish. And unfortunately, you don't know yet if your established fish are affected or not. You also have to take into consideration species and individual differences. Personally I'd be inclined to wait several months before adding any new fish.

 

[GillMeister]

That was my next though, however why would all of my fish not be effected? I also did a massive water change when I added these fish because I moved my tank.

Some fish are more tolerant of water conditions. Are you using RODI for your water changes? You can get an ICP on your fresh water as well.

 

[MichaelReefer]

Keep in mind stress level are very different between your established fish and the new fish. And unfortunately, you don't know yet if your established fish are affected or not. You also have to take into consideration species and individual differences. Personally I'd be inclined to wait several months before adding any new fish.

See, thats why I did originally before I moved the tank, I had this happen previously and thought maybe my aggressive tang was killing them, so I waited a good 3-4 months, moved the tank and re aquascaped. And a month later, now its happening again.

 

[MichaelReefer]

Some fish are more tolerant of water conditions. Are you using RODI for your water changes? You can get an ICP on your fresh water as well.

Always RODI, fresh filters 0 TDS, both off the in-line reader on the RODI filter and a handheld one.

 

[Timfish]

See, thats why I did originally before I moved the tank, I had this happen previously and thought maybe my aggressive tang was killing them, so I waited a good 3-4 months, moved the tank and re aquascaped. And now its happening again.

If you haven't lost any of your established fish, you're not seeing any marks on hte new fish and they were eating well it sounds like a disease process and not harrasment by the tang (with it's poisinous spines the fox face can deal witht he tang). At this point my suggestion would be to run a big oversized UV for a couple months then try again.

 

[GillMeister]

Where are you buying your fish from? I have a lower success rate with fish from a certain national chain.

 

[MichaelReefer]

If you haven't lost any of your established fish, you're not seeing any marks on hte new fish and they were eating well it sounds like a disease process and not harrasment by the tang (with it's poisinous spines the fox face can deal witht he tang). At this point my suggestion would be to run a big oversized UV for a couple months then try again.

I currently run a full size UV 24/7 on the tank. But may have to try it again I guess.

@Jay Hemdal any advice? Thoughts?

 

[MichaelReefer]

Where are you buying your fish from? I have a lower success rate with fish from a certain national chain.

Not sure where they get them, I know its not Live Aquaria though. But I know its different vendors.

 

[threebuoys]

I assume you did not QT any of the new acquisitions? Sometimes this can be useful, even if you don't medicate, to confirm the new acquisitions are healthy. Also, if no deaths during the observational QT, followed by rapid death in DT would further point towards aggression or other issues within the DT. I would be suspicious of the puffer.

 

[MichaelReefer]

I assume you did not QT any of the new acquisitions? Sometimes this can be useful, even if you don't medicate, to confirm the new acquisitions are healthy. Also, if no deaths during the observational QT, followed by rapid death in DT would further point towards aggression or other issues within the DT. I would be suspicious of the puffer.

No QT (Dont kill me).

The puffer? Never really seen any aggression from him except the snails and crabs. You think he could take out a Fox Fish?

 

[threebuoys]

You should try to film the tank when you are not present and also at night. You might be surprised. Puffer beaks can be pretty damaging.

 

[MichaelReefer]

You should try to film the tank when you are not present and also at night. You might be surprised. Puffer beaks can be pretty damaging.

Wouldn't there be visible bite marks? Seems like he would take chunks out of em?

I fully inspected the Corris Wrasse and the Melenarus. They were spotless, not a wound on them. (had to be a bit careful with the foxfish obviously)

 

[threebuoys]

Wouldn't there be visible bite marks? Seems like he would take chunks out of em?

You would think so. On the other hand, being chased around the tank, or nipped at can cause significant stress. Since the surviving fish have been in the tank for an extended period, I looking for causes other than water quality.

One issue that can occur when adding new fish to a DT is difficulty rapidly adjusting to a significant increase in salinity. Some LFS and mail order vendors run salinity at 1.019 +/- while hobbyists run at 1.026. Some fish cannot tolerate the change if made in a matter of hours instead of days. Your fish seem to have died after several days in the DT, so I'm assuming they were able to adjust to the new salinity without problems. Since your older fish survived after the new fish were added, I making a big assumption the new fish were not carrying any parasites that could have been responsible. QT would help you consider that problem in the future. If the fish were in the LFS possession for only hours before you got the fish, you really don't know what condition they were in after surviving the shipment.

 

[MichaelReefer]

You would think so. On the other hand, being chased around the tank, or nipped at can cause significant stress. Since the surviving fish have been in the tank for an extended period, I looking for causes other than water quality.

One issue that can occur when adding new fish to a DT is difficulty rapidly adjusting to a significant increase in salinity. Some LFS and mail order vendors run salinity at 1.019 +/- while hobbyists run at 1.026. Some fish cannot tolerate the change if made in a matter of hours instead of days. Your fish seem to have died after several days in the DT, so I'm assuming they were able to adjust to the new salinity without problems. Since your older fish survived after the new fish were added, I making a big assumption the new fish were not carrying any parasites that could have been responsible. QT would help you consider that problem in the future. If the fish were in the LFS possession for only hours before you got the fish, you really don't know what condition they were in after surviving the shipment.

Well I believe only the Melenarus came straight out of the box- The others were in their tanks for a day or two. I always temp acclimate and drip acclimate. They also were in there for a month with no signs or symptoms and actively eating/swimming. No itching on rocks, etc etc. The foxface was actually surprisingly very active. Eating algae and swimming all day long.

So in your opinion, you think maybe someone in the tank is harrassing them to death basically?

I guess I always suspected the tang because I visually saw him being aggressive, but after the tank move he went from being the ***Hole of the tank to an angel.